PNC 7/24/13

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::PNC Meeting Agenda::

--- 07/24/2013 21:00h EDT ---
Room: #pnc


Record of the meeting

  • Brought up what qualifies as quorum

  • Brief update from Lucia

  • Discusion of alternatives to IRC for meeting
    • Mumble, TeamSpeak, Google Hangout considered
    • Possible use for a social meeting
    • Meeting to be held on Monday 2013-7-29 at 9pm, details to be sent over SAB mailing list

  • Discussion of past and current Committees
    • IT Committee is the only committee that still exists
    • Records of committees need to be updated
    • Lack of volunteers/communication lead to other committees being "vaporware"
      • A call for developers to be sent out over SAB, USPP Social Media, and at MAPP's next meeting

  • Website content/state need to be addressed
    • Francis Klein volunteered to be editor of content for site/blog

  • Suggested that IT Committee give updates at every PNC meeting
    • Amendment to PNC Bylaws regarding committee reports to be discussed at next meeting

  • Issue of funding for Party functions (server hosting, etc)
    • Possibility of state dues-actual amount to be determined
    • Server hosting cost suggested between $9-$40 a month

  • BlueVPN brought up, could be used for better records and communication between parties
    • Information given over SAB mailing list

  • Policy discussion brought up, moved to next meeting
    • Possibility of forming a committee to handle Party platform
    • Platform issues should still be brought up by individual members

  • Meetings shall be two hours long as of next meeting


1.1 - Members of the PNC

  • Attending
    • Lucia Fiero - MA
    • Bradley Hall - FL
    • Daniel Gorski - NY
    • Andrew Norton - GA
    • Francis Klein - WI
    • Kyle Devore - OR
  • Excused
  • Unexcused
    • CA
    • WA
  • Probation

1.2 - At Large Members of the PNC

  • Nick Desalvio - MD

1.3 - Officers of the PNC

  • Lindsay-Anne Brunner - Captain
  • Caleb Langeslag - First Mate
  • Daniel Gorski - Quartermaster

1.4 - Other Attendess


  • Meeting called to order at: 9:15pm EDT
  • Meeting chaired by Lindsay-Anne Brunner
  • Secretary for this meeting is Daniel Gorski
  • Quorum is established: 6 out of 8 Members present
  • Logging Enabled: Yes

3 - Review of previous minutes


4.1 - Short Report From Committees

IT Committee
  • Previous meetings were held to discuss the social network project and to finalize the website
  • Projects unable to move forward because of lack of developers/volunteers

5 - Agenda Items

  • Suggestions of changes to PNC to increase attendance/efficiency
  • Discussion of Pirate-friendly VPN service
  • Adding to USPP policy discussion
  • Announcements to be made during meeting
    • PNC Meetings to be held weekly

- AOB -

  • Next meeting: 2013-7-31 at 9:00PM EDT
  • Meeting closed: 12:06 AM EDT

- Logs of the Meeting -

Jul 24 21:16:10 <kusanagi>        okay, meeting started at 9:15 PM. PLease state your name, state you're representing
Jul 24 21:16:18 <kusanagi>        Lindsay-Anne Brunner, Capt.
Jul 24 21:16:39 <OyajiVyse>        Daniel Gorski, Quartermaster, New York
Jul 24 21:17:01 <Bluestreak>        Lucia Fiero, Medway, MA
Jul 24 21:17:54 <Rush>        Bradley Hall, Florida
Jul 24 21:17:57 <kusanagi>        Rush, K`Tetch 
Jul 24 21:18:51 <adpaolucci>        Andrew Paolucci, PPCA (here observing)
Jul 24 21:21:24 <Bluestreak>        Howdy, y'all.
Jul 24 21:21:47 <kusanagi>        K`Tetch, not going to ID?
Jul 24 21:22:42 <kusanagi>        with him not id, we need to wait
Jul 24 21:22:45 <kusanagi>        but we have 2 inc
Jul 24 21:22:47 <Bluestreak>        We have quorum, don't we?
Jul 24 21:22:49 <kusanagi>        no
Jul 24 21:22:57 <Bluestreak>        What do we need?
Jul 24 21:23:20 <kusanagi>        1 more
Jul 24 21:23:25 <kusanagi>        but OR and WI are inc
Jul 24 21:24:59 <OyajiVyse>        sorry about that, wifi going in and out
Jul 24 21:25:11 *        kusanagi gives voice to Bluestreak
Jul 24 21:25:11 *        kusanagi gives voice to Rush
Jul 24 21:25:11 *        kusanagi gives voice to OyajiVyse
Jul 24 21:25:11 <Bluestreak>        I have no where I have to be...
Jul 24 21:25:11 <Rush>        Some of us do, Blue
Jul 24 21:25:27 <K`Tetch>        Andrew Norton, GA
Jul 24 21:25:32 <K`Tetch>        still waiting on some I see
Jul 24 21:25:42 <kusanagi>        oh, then we're good.
Jul 24 21:25:51 <kusanagi>        we can start wirthout them
Jul 24 21:25:52 *        K`Tetch doesn't see 6 states
Jul 24 21:26:06 *        kusanagi gives voice to K`Tetch
Jul 24 21:26:09 <K`Tetch>        still no quorum
Jul 24 21:26:10 <kusanagi>        Quorum is 4
Jul 24 21:26:16 <K`Tetch>        quorum is SIX
Jul 24 21:26:24 <kusanagi>        how is quorum 6
Jul 24 21:26:37 <K`Tetch>        Article VI, Section 1.3 "A quorum shall be 50% of all states, Probationary states, and Observer states, where Member states are counted as one and Probationary and Observer states are counted as one-half."
Jul 24 21:26:51 <kusanagi>        no one on probation
Jul 24 21:26:56 <kusanagi>        and no observer states in
Jul 24 21:27:16 <K`Tetch> says 8 full, 1 probationary and 3 pbserver
Jul 24 21:27:18 <Bluestreak>        LOL nice to hear from you, Andrew.
Jul 24 21:27:32 <K`Tetch>        I was putting burn cream on my hand lucia
Jul 24 21:27:47 <Bluestreak>        I hope you're OK!
Jul 24 21:27:59 <kusanagi>        Geez, hope that's okay
Jul 24 21:28:04 <kusanagi>        that's out-of-date
Jul 24 21:28:08 <K`Tetch>        30% 1st degree burns to my right hand, nothing major
Jul 24 21:28:10 <kusanagi>        MIPP never existed
Jul 24 21:28:23 <Bluestreak>        Ouch.
Jul 24 21:28:29 <K`Tetch>        thems the records. if we've got bum records, then no wonder things are gonig to shit
Jul 24 21:28:42 <kusanagi>        I'll fix it in a moment.
Jul 24 21:28:47 <Bluestreak>        Ah, there's the sunshine!
Jul 24 21:29:20 <kusanagi>        TX should also be attending.
Jul 24 21:29:23 <K`Tetch>        another case of 'well, the records aren't right, take my word while I fix em up'
Jul 24 21:29:42 <kusanagi>        OK was voted off probation some time ago
Jul 24 21:29:50 *        HariSeldon ( has joined #pnc
Jul 24 21:29:53 <kusanagi>        and 2 parties listed as observer haven't existed.
Jul 24 21:30:03 <HariSeldon>        Francis Klein, WI
Jul 24 21:30:09 <HariSeldon>        so sorry we're late
Jul 24 21:30:10 <K`Tetch>        then why were they even listed there
Jul 24 21:30:14 <kusanagi>        I hqave no idea.
Jul 24 21:30:44 <Bluestreak>        Who represents TX?
Jul 24 21:30:49 <HariSeldon>        point of information - what is on the table?
Jul 24 21:30:53 <K`Tetch>        you should do "The Captain or Chairperson, who shall manage all administration and operations of the PNC"
Jul 24 21:31:09 <Bluestreak>        We are discussing what qualifies as quorum
Jul 24 21:31:35 <K`Tetch>        well, more a case of why every single record seems to be unreliable, out of date, or 'never been accurate'
Jul 24 21:31:42 <Bluestreak>        Yeah! Earn your pay, woman!
Jul 24 21:32:12 <CalebL[phone]>        Meeting minutes are the official records, which are available
Jul 24 21:33:14 <K`Tetch>        thats supposed to be an official record too. So much for transparency (one of THE core parts) when you put up any old crap and say 'well, ignore them, you really need to comb through all the minutes to find out what might have been decided and see what's true'
Jul 24 21:33:16 <kusanagi>        Bluestreak, honestly, unsure. I thought you knew
Jul 24 21:33:46 <kusanagi>        since they were talking to you about their sponsorship
Jul 24 21:33:47 <Bluestreak>        I knew what? I was joking about the pay.
Jul 24 21:33:54 <kusanagi>        oh
Jul 24 21:34:01 <HariSeldon>        TX
Jul 24 21:34:39 <HariSeldon>        kusanagi - may I be +v'd?
Jul 24 21:34:53 <kusanagi>        I tohught the records were updated, apparently they weren't, or they revision was lost in the merge.
Jul 24 21:35:00 *        kusanagi gives voice to HariSeldon
Jul 24 21:35:05 <HariSeldon>        thank you
Jul 24 21:35:27 <kusanagi>        np
Jul 24 21:35:35 <K`Tetch>        So, you're saying you didn't do your job that well, or it's the fault of the IT team?
Jul 24 21:35:52 <kusanagi>        The Wiki is the IT
Jul 24 21:35:52 <K`Tetch>        and that the IT Team has potentally lost records?
Jul 24 21:36:17 <kusanagi>        there were records lost in a merge. Something about the URL redirection... I don't remember exactly what the issue was.
Jul 24 21:36:36 <K`Tetch>        thats why any COMPETENT IT person makes backups before doing such a thing
Jul 24 21:36:52 <K`Tetch>        so, you're saying the IT team is incompetent, kusanagi?
Jul 24 21:37:31 <kusanagi>        I'm sure the IT team did at least attempt to make a back up
Jul 24 21:37:45 <Bluestreak>        Jesus Andrew are you working for the government?
Jul 24 21:37:49 <K`Tetch>        so thats a ytes, you're saying they were incompetent
Jul 24 21:37:56 <Bluestreak>        Can we just move on?
Jul 24 21:37:57 <OyajiVyse>        no, that's what you're inferring
Jul 24 21:37:59 <kusanagi>        but with how the changes were (there were 2 wikis, with edits being made to both), I don't know how it worked.
Jul 24 21:38:23 *        MrSquared (webchat@67.22.iwk.vv) has joined #pnc
Jul 24 21:38:28 <CalebL[phone]>        Lost records of?
Jul 24 21:38:37 <K`Tetch>        kusanagi - you make backups of both, then if a merge goes badly, you manually edit things so they reflect the true final value. If they didn't, they're either lazy, incompetent or both
Jul 24 21:38:45 <K`Tetch>        so which is it?
Jul 24 21:38:51 <HariSeldon>        ktech since I don't have any background on the conversation, why exactly are you trying to corner kusanagi? 
Jul 24 21:38:58 <kusanagi>        I don't know. I didn't work on the IT team.
Jul 24 21:39:07 <CalebL[phone]>        I have backups of it all, even of the two
Jul 24 21:39:10 <Bluestreak>        That Andrew EVER does.
Jul 24 21:39:13 <Bluestreak>        all
Jul 24 21:39:20 <MrSquared>        Kyle DeVore, Oregon
Jul 24 21:39:27 *        kusanagi gives voice to MrSquared
Jul 24 21:39:28 <Bluestreak>        Hey!
Jul 24 21:39:33 <K`Tetch>        HariSeldon - the gist of this meetingis to address major problems with the PNC, it's lack of activity, it's lack of acomplishment, and it's lack of CARING
Jul 24 21:39:35 <kusanagi>        hi kyle
Jul 24 21:39:51 <MrSquared>        hello! I made it
Jul 24 21:40:02 <Bluestreak>        YES! And the beatings shall continue until morale improves!
Jul 24 21:40:10 <HariSeldon>        ktetch - i understand, but work with kusanagi - nothing will be accomplished by playing politics
Jul 24 21:40:20 <Bluestreak>        No shit.
Jul 24 21:40:32 <CalebL[phone]>        Nonetheless, this isn't quite relevant to the topic of the meeting, and is causing nothing to get done, which you apparently keep whining about, which you're causing
Jul 24 21:40:33 <K`Tetch>        And the problem is that the officers just don't seem to care about doing their jobs well. And when they don't, no-one seems to want to call them on it, because its 'being mean'. And yet, still nothing gets done, because everyone lets stuff slide
Jul 24 21:41:00 <CalebL[phone]>        So it would be advised to move on with the meeting, rather than continuing to derail conversation
Jul 24 21:41:06 <Bluestreak>        It's not for fear of being MEAN punk
Jul 24 21:41:19 <HariSeldon>        on the contrary, i think calling them out is good.
Jul 24 21:41:19 <Bluestreak>        Its for fear of getting nothing done
Jul 24 21:41:26 <HariSeldon>        whining is just unproductive
Jul 24 21:41:27 <K`Tetch>        we're ALREADY getting nothing done
Jul 24 21:41:35 <Bluestreak>        ++Hari
Jul 24 21:41:44 <Bluestreak>        Because oof YOU
Jul 24 21:41:45 *        Sacha ( has joined #pnc
Jul 24 21:41:54 <Bluestreak>        Hi!
Jul 24 21:41:56 <K`Tetch>        we've been getting nothing done for a year, because these three don't want to actually DO anything, except moan they're 'busy'
Jul 24 21:42:05 <kusanagi>        I want to do.
Jul 24 21:42:17 <Bluestreak>        Andrew, do what you want to build the party
Jul 24 21:42:23 <Bluestreak>        You don't have to have a title
Jul 24 21:42:28 <Bluestreak>        Did you read Swarmwise?
Jul 24 21:42:29 <HariSeldon>        andrew, volunteer then!
Jul 24 21:42:29 <K`Tetch>        and when they're confronted, it's 'well we're going to rty and do something', or 'you're derailing things, lets get back to pointless do-nothing bureaucracy'
Jul 24 21:42:49 <kusanagi>        caleb suggested working on a cryptoparty info kit
Jul 24 21:42:50 <adpaolucci>        (If the USparties need anything I personally and the PPCA as an organization are willing to help with resources and such)
Jul 24 21:42:51 <Bluestreak>        I am here to talk about:
Jul 24 21:42:52 <kusanagi>        no responses
Jul 24 21:42:52 <K`Tetch>        HariSeldon - I have done, a bunch of times, I keep getting 'we'll get abck to you' and then nothing
Jul 24 21:42:57 <kusanagi>        it's not just the officers
Jul 24 21:43:01 <Bluestreak>        Getting candidates elected
Jul 24 21:43:16 <Bluestreak>        an Energy policy
Jul 24 21:43:22 <HariSeldon>        i agree - candidates are our most important thing right now
Jul 24 21:43:23 <Bluestreak>        a HSISP for all politcy
Jul 24 21:43:29 <Bluestreak>        We HAVE ONE
Jul 24 21:43:33 <Bluestreak>        We are meeting Sunday
Jul 24 21:43:42 <Bluestreak>        We are crows shourcing his platform
Jul 24 21:43:43 <kusanagi>        WA has one as well
Jul 24 21:43:52 <kusanagi>        the NY candidate is bust, ffrom what i've seen.
Jul 24 21:43:52 <HariSeldon>        and im running for governor
Jul 24 21:43:54 <Bluestreak>        since he will essentailly be representing us all
Jul 24 21:43:59 <Bluestreak>        COOL!
Jul 24 21:44:09 <Bluestreak>        Do you know Mason Williams and...
Jul 24 21:44:31 <kusanagi>        CA hasn't been in PNC meetings in months
Jul 24 21:44:40 <K`Tetch>        pure crowdsourcing, or filtered crowdsourcing?
Jul 24 21:44:54 <HariSeldon>        yeah i need to keep bugging CA
Jul 24 21:45:16 <HariSeldon>        i dropped that ball
Jul 24 21:45:28 <Bluestreak>        I don't know what you mean, Andrew
Jul 24 21:45:28 <kusanagi>        HariSeldon, that would be good to keep on
Jul 24 21:45:35 <HariSeldon>        indeed
Jul 24 21:45:40 <Bluestreak>        Aaron Renaud (Geworfenheit on IRC). HariSeldon
Jul 24 21:45:57 <HariSeldon>        although if anyone else feels like bugging them, go ahead and take a shot
Jul 24 21:45:58 <K`Tetch>        is it wide open to all on all topics, or is it open to some, on a limited range of topics?
Jul 24 21:46:09 <HariSeldon>        i will continue
Jul 24 21:46:12 <Bluestreak>        I asked our activist list what bills they would submit to the state legislature...
Jul 24 21:46:26 <HariSeldon>        bluestreak, no i don't
Jul 24 21:46:36 <Bluestreak>        I thought you wanted me to answer a question...
Jul 24 21:47:15 <Bluestreak>        OK well, they are 2 TX Pirates I have been in contact with this week
Jul 24 21:47:37 <Bluestreak>        Aaron asked MAPP to sponsor him
Jul 24 21:47:39 <HariSeldon>        no, no...
Jul 24 21:47:45 <HariSeldon>        I'm not from TX
Jul 24 21:47:46 <HariSeldon>        WI
Jul 24 21:47:53 <Bluestreak>        Sorry
Jul 24 21:47:54 <HariSeldon>        running against scotty
Jul 24 21:47:57 <HariSeldon>        thats ok
Jul 24 21:47:59 <Bluestreak>        I hate IRC soetimes
Jul 24 21:48:05 <HariSeldon>        i did say TX earlier
Jul 24 21:48:10 <HariSeldon>        yeah me too
Jul 24 21:48:13 <kusanagi>        Mumble was suggested as a meeting platform
Jul 24 21:48:13 <Bluestreak>        Scroll back you will see why I misunderstood
Jul 24 21:48:34 <Bluestreak>        I have that working on my Mac at last
Jul 24 21:48:40 <Bluestreak>        Mumble
Jul 24 21:48:46 <kusanagi>        increasing meeting attendance is one of the issues
Jul 24 21:49:02 <K`Tetch>        mumble DECREASES attendance
Jul 24 21:49:07 <kusanagi>        it does?
Jul 24 21:49:10 <K`Tetch>        yes
Jul 24 21:49:15 <kusanagi>        How so?
Jul 24 21:49:15 <Bluestreak>        Andrew is right
Jul 24 21:49:22 <Bluestreak>        It's hard to install and get working
Jul 24 21:49:33 <MrSquared>        not everyone has a capable mic
Jul 24 21:49:40 <K`Tetch>        it requires greater invovlement and activity, is more restrictive on usable platforms, needs a faster connection, and can't generally be used unless you're in a quiet apace anyway
Jul 24 21:49:41 <Bluestreak>        I couldn't make it work without Gregg and Jamie's help.
Jul 24 21:49:55 <Bluestreak>        I have to agree.
Jul 24 21:50:02 <K`Tetch>        plus meeting records are a lot harder to go through
Jul 24 21:50:06 <Bluestreak>        Besides this is easier for records
Jul 24 21:50:18 <Bluestreak>        I just hate looking like I am not paying attn
Jul 24 21:50:18 <HariSeldon>        i feel like keeping up the meetings on here is best, but having occasional sort of break out sessions using google hangouts would be effective
Jul 24 21:50:35 <Bluestreak>        That woul dbe insecure, but easy.
Jul 24 21:50:35 <CalebL[phone]>        You can do audio pretty much over dial up, especially with the constant advancements in codecs, such as Opus
Jul 24 21:50:43 <K`Tetch>        we use mumble for the UK Party Board of Governors, and it works, but then again, we all work really well together
Jul 24 21:50:58 <K`Tetch>        in theory yes, CalebL[phone], in reality, NO
Jul 24 21:51:03 <CalebL[phone]>        Also the point IS people to actually pay attention to the meeting
Jul 24 21:51:20 <HariSeldon>        what about hangout?
Jul 24 21:51:32 <HariSeldon>        not for regular meetings
Jul 24 21:51:32 <Bluestreak>        I don'r care about security
Jul 24 21:51:33 <K`Tetch>        Mmmm Google-y
Jul 24 21:51:37 <HariSeldon>        but supplimentary
Jul 24 21:51:51 <HariSeldon>        it would increase visibility
Jul 24 21:51:55 <Bluestreak>        honestly if they want to watch us, they will
Jul 24 21:51:58 <HariSeldon>        did so with calpirates
Jul 24 21:52:05 <K`Tetch>        requires a) a google account, b) even MORE bandwidth, and c) a computer capable of handling it
Jul 24 21:52:06 <HariSeldon>        before they went dark
Jul 24 21:52:27 <HariSeldon>        ktetch, yes which is why i say supplimentary
Jul 24 21:52:32 <Bluestreak>        Yeah, this lack of bandwith is a problem
Jul 24 21:52:35 <K`Tetch>        and then not only do you need a quiet area, you need an area you're not afraid to have seen (if you have a camera)
Jul 24 21:52:55 <Bluestreak>        Youy can hang out without a camera, right?
Jul 24 21:53:01 <MrSquared>        are we so opposed to trying things?
Jul 24 21:53:04 <Bluestreak>        just voice? I've never used it
Jul 24 21:53:06 <Bluestreak>        I Skype
Jul 24 21:53:09 <HariSeldon>        and bluestresk, no - they will not read it. i can tell you that most people would rather watch a video than learn about us by searching through the irc
Jul 24 21:53:11 <CalebL[phone]>        You can do Mumble on the three major operating systems, and mobile platforms as well.
Jul 24 21:53:22 <K`Tetch>        Last time I did a Hangout (for huffpost Live), I had to dump using the laptop and use my wifes S3 because my DSL didn't have the upstream
Jul 24 21:53:22 <HariSeldon>        skype group calls are paid now
Jul 24 21:53:32 <CalebL[phone]>        It's just like doing a phone call on Android
Jul 24 21:53:32 <Bluestreak>        That's a good Point Hari
Jul 24 21:53:58 <Bluestreak>        Didn't know that, HS
Jul 24 21:54:02 <K`Tetch>        multi-person vid calls have been paid on skype for years
Jul 24 21:54:16 <Bluestreak>        Well, I don't multi Skype
Jul 24 21:54:18 <HariSeldon>        sadly
Jul 24 21:54:32 <HariSeldon>        yeah tried it with my friends recently- 
Jul 24 21:54:34 <K`Tetch>        CalebL[phone] - SOME androids, doesn't seem to work too well with the 2.x
Jul 24 21:54:57 <MrSquared>        I use a private TeamSpeak server for my voice needs
Jul 24 21:54:59 <HariSeldon>        i really think hangout would help with visibility
Jul 24 21:55:11 <HariSeldon>        if we are trying to get our organization more noticed
Jul 24 21:55:15 <K`Tetch>        I ran into it when sorting out the Friedrichshafen PPI GA with Lola and SAmir 2 years ago
Jul 24 21:55:17 <HariSeldon>        especially by media
Jul 24 21:55:23 <HariSeldon>        they want a face
Jul 24 21:55:34 <Bluestreak>        I haven't used Team Speak in years. 
Jul 24 21:55:39 <HariSeldon>        team speak?
Jul 24 21:55:45 <HariSeldon>        do elaborate
Jul 24 21:55:48 <K`Tetch>        again Hari - I'll point us back to the shoddy records, website that's half in German, and say 'right now, we really don't WANT the publicity'
Jul 24 21:55:50 <Bluestreak>        Gamer's voice
Jul 24 21:55:56 <Bluestreak>        thing
Jul 24 21:55:59 <MrSquared>        it's like Mumble, but not OSS
Jul 24 21:56:04 <K`Tetch>        teamspeak's a little like umble, only less secure
Jul 24 21:56:13 <Bluestreak>        Not secure
Jul 24 21:56:24 <Bluestreak>        Less?
Jul 24 21:56:41 <HariSeldon>        ktetch - then we start filming - gives us all the more incentive to clean up our game
Jul 24 21:56:56 <K`Tetch>        you lot start, I'll Continue
Jul 24 21:57:08 <HariSeldon>        is team speak easy to set up for newbies?
Jul 24 21:57:09 <Bluestreak>        It's something to think about
Jul 24 21:57:13 <kusanagi>        HariSeldon, yes
Jul 24 21:57:17 <K`Tetch>        TS is just as 'easy' as mumble
Jul 24 21:57:19 <Bluestreak>        It was easier than Mumble
Jul 24 21:57:21 <kusanagi>        I prefered vent back in the day
Jul 24 21:57:25 <K`Tetch>        the sound quality isn't a good
Jul 24 21:57:48 <HariSeldon>        we might give it a shot
Jul 24 21:57:58 <K`Tetch>        and again, it requires a microphone, enough bandwidth, and A QUIET PLACE TO TALK
Jul 24 21:58:20 <Bluestreak>
Jul 24 21:58:37 <HariSeldon>        do you have any quiet places you can go, ktetch? they're usually not that hard to find
Jul 24 21:58:47 <K`Tetch>        you got kids, HariSeldon?
Jul 24 21:58:47 <kusanagi>        He has children
Jul 24 21:58:52 <Bluestreak>
Jul 24 21:58:55 <kusanagi>        I understand his concern, VERY well.
Jul 24 21:58:57 <HariSeldon>        ah 
Jul 24 21:59:01 <K`Tetch>        I have THREE
Jul 24 21:59:01 <HariSeldon>        that will do ti
Jul 24 21:59:07 <K`Tetch>        9, 11, and 16
Jul 24 21:59:07 <MrSquared>        duct tape
Jul 24 21:59:07 <HariSeldon>        fair
Jul 24 21:59:11 <HariSeldon>        haha
Jul 24 21:59:13 <HariSeldon>        yes
Jul 24 22:00:06 <HariSeldon>        and no i dont have kids, im nineteen
Jul 24 22:00:21 <HariSeldon>        just to clarify
Jul 24 22:00:24 <Bluestreak>        So, staying with IRC for now.
Jul 24 22:00:26 <Bluestreak>        ?
Jul 24 22:00:42 <Bluestreak>        We could hold a social Pirate Hangout
Jul 24 22:00:45 <OyajiVyse>        seems the best bet to me
Jul 24 22:00:49 <Bluestreak>        jsut for fun
Jul 24 22:00:53 <HariSeldon>        i agree
Jul 24 22:00:53 <Bluestreak>        Some other evening
Jul 24 22:00:57 <MrSquared>        I agree
Jul 24 22:00:59 <HariSeldon>        and to test it out
Jul 24 22:01:06 <HariSeldon>        thats what i was trying to say
Jul 24 22:01:07 <kusanagi>        we'll throw an experiment meeting for it
Jul 24 22:01:10 <kusanagi>        on an off-night
Jul 24 22:01:10 <K`Tetch>        would be nice to have the free time...
Jul 24 22:01:22 <Bluestreak>        Yes. I will set it up and post it to the SAB... Andrew YOU name the day
Jul 24 22:01:28 <HariSeldon>        which night would be best?
Jul 24 22:01:32 <K`Tetch>        i don't have free time
Jul 24 22:01:33 <Bluestreak>        We will accomodate YOU
Jul 24 22:01:40 <HariSeldon>        none of us do
Jul 24 22:01:42 <Bluestreak>        You're here!
Jul 24 22:01:45 <K`Tetch>        I'm only available now, because of my burnt hand
Jul 24 22:02:15 <Bluestreak>        OK well, don't come to the test hangout then
Jul 24 22:02:24 <K`Tetch>        and, while I'm here, I'm also writing an affidavid
Jul 24 22:02:36 <Bluestreak>        You are amazing
Jul 24 22:02:42 <Bluestreak>        :-)
Jul 24 22:02:53 <HariSeldon>        impressive
Jul 24 22:02:53 <kusanagi>        shouldn't you be in a burn center, though?
Jul 24 22:03:14 <Bluestreak>        So I move that we continue to use IRC until further notics
Jul 24 22:03:15 <K`Tetch>        no
Jul 24 22:03:25 <HariSeldon>        second
Jul 24 22:03:39 <K`Tetch>        its painful, but i've had worse
Jul 24 22:03:54 <kusanagi>        Bluestreak, no motion needed
Jul 24 22:04:03 <Bluestreak>        What do I know?
Jul 24 22:04:20 <kusanagi>        Dance moves, I'd hope
Jul 24 22:04:29 <Bluestreak>        You know it, baby
Jul 24 22:04:56 <Bluestreak>        !!!
Jul 24 22:05:01 <HariSeldon>        i move that we designate a day to have a test hangout on google hangouts and that bluestreak post the day and all necessary information to the SAB
Jul 24 22:05:35 <Bluestreak>        Wait, 9pm good?
Jul 24 22:05:44 <Bluestreak>        Because I move it be Monday
Jul 24 22:06:01 <Bluestreak>        Or an Off PNC  Wed
Jul 24 22:06:10 <Bluestreak>        suggest
Jul 24 22:06:15 <Bluestreak>        rather
Jul 24 22:06:24 <HariSeldon>        if there are no objections, i would like to make bluestreaks comments a freindly amendment to my motion
Jul 24 22:06:31 <kusanagi>        There actually isn't going to be an off-day Wednesday
Jul 24 22:06:37 <kusanagi>        We're moving back to weekly meetings
Jul 24 22:06:45 <Bluestreak>        Oh... well good!
Jul 24 22:06:51 <Bluestreak>        OK How about Monday?
Jul 24 22:06:55 <K`Tetch>        so we can get nothing done more often?
Jul 24 22:07:02 <Bluestreak>        Kissy!
Jul 24 22:07:22 <OyajiVyse>        Monday works for me, though I'll be a little late
Jul 24 22:08:06 <Bluestreak>        OK I will have it set up by next Monday and I will post it to the SAB. SAB only, or can I invite the MAPP?
Jul 24 22:08:18 <kusanagi>        you can invite anyone
Jul 24 22:08:22 <kusanagi>        all meetings are open to all
Jul 24 22:08:25 <HariSeldon>        do i need a motion?
Jul 24 22:08:32 <HariSeldon>        *we
Jul 24 22:08:36 <Bluestreak>        OK well then once I set it up y'all can invite your parties too
Jul 24 22:08:47 <Bluestreak>        Maybe we will get 6 ppl! Lol
Jul 24 22:08:56 <HariSeldon>        haha maybe
Jul 24 22:08:58 <kusanagi>        I don't think so
Jul 24 22:09:00 <kusanagi>        no motion
Jul 24 22:09:01 <Bluestreak>        lol
Jul 24 22:09:04 <HariSeldon>        ok
Jul 24 22:09:18 <Bluestreak>        OK I am putting it on my to do list
Jul 24 22:09:24 <HariSeldon>        thank you
Jul 24 22:09:31 <HariSeldon>        monday at 9 eastern?
Jul 24 22:09:35 <Bluestreak>        Yes
Jul 24 22:09:36 <HariSeldon>        putting it on my calendar
Jul 24 22:09:51 <Bluestreak>        Did you want to talk about crowd sourcing, Andrew?
Jul 24 22:10:07 <Bluestreak>        What we are doing for our lone candidate?
Jul 24 22:10:28 <K`Tetch>        not really
Jul 24 22:10:32 <Bluestreak>        LOL
Jul 24 22:10:49 <Bluestreak>        I defer to the Captain anyway
Jul 24 22:11:58 <HariSeldon>        bluestreaak if you are staying for a while, i would like to talk about that - could use some info for my campaign
Jul 24 22:11:58 <HariSeldon>        maybe after meeting
Jul 24 22:11:58 <kusanagi>        What you're doing for your candidates is state party business
Jul 24 22:11:58 <Bluestreak>        Yes, sir
Jul 24 22:12:20 <Bluestreak>        (TTYL Hari)
Jul 24 22:12:26 <HariSeldon>        k
Jul 24 22:13:02 <HariSeldon>        are we still discussing increasing efficiencies?
Jul 24 22:13:14 <HariSeldon>        or have we moved on to VPN?
Jul 24 22:13:33 <kusanagi>        We've not moved on just yet
Jul 24 22:13:42 <kusanagi>        But are there any additional suggestions?
Jul 24 22:13:49 <HariSeldon>        still open discussion?
Jul 24 22:14:09 <kusanagi>        yes
Jul 24 22:14:42 <HariSeldon>        ok, whatever happened to the committees? are they still in effect? are they meeting on a regular basis at all?
Jul 24 22:14:52 <HariSeldon>        i have heard nothing
Jul 24 22:15:12 <kusanagi>        Most of the committees were vaporware
Jul 24 22:15:28 <HariSeldon>        any that were not?
Jul 24 22:15:44 <HariSeldon>        and have we since dissolved such vaporware committees?
Jul 24 22:15:54 <kusanagi>        IT, but the last meeting was sometime ago
Jul 24 22:15:58 <kusanagi>        no.
Jul 24 22:16:10 <HariSeldon>        so IT is the only committee that worked?
Jul 24 22:16:53 <K`Tetch>        its the only committee .
Jul 24 22:17:23 <kusanagi>        Pretty much.
Jul 24 22:18:01 <HariSeldon>        i think part of the reason is the lack of face to face communication - it decreases the sense of responsibility. However, i recognize that this is a difficult challenge to overcome. I think both VPN and hangouts will help, but I feel like establishing some sort of system to track responsibilities, make them more apparent and transparent, would be most effective.
Jul 24 22:18:21 <HariSeldon>        dont know what that would entail yet
Jul 24 22:19:47 <HariSeldon>        thinking about it though
Jul 24 22:19:47 <HariSeldon>        committees were a good idea, but they should have to submit at least a written report to the pnc
Jul 24 22:19:47 <HariSeldon>        every month or so
Jul 24 22:19:47 <K`Tetch>        Hari - I think it's more the lack of accountability. PPUK manages just fine without 'face to face', PPAU too. But they've held themselves accountable to each other
Jul 24 22:19:47 <K`Tetch>        and when someone doesn't do what they should, or doesn't have time, they replace them
Jul 24 22:19:54 <HariSeldon>        ktetch - thats why i say part of the reason. I think we can manage just fine with out
Jul 24 22:20:12 <HariSeldon>        but yes - some sort of accountability system
Jul 24 22:20:37 <HariSeldon>        was it written in that committees would report to pnc on some regular basis?
Jul 24 22:20:38 <K`Tetch>        right now, the ONLY accountability system we have is the VoNC
Jul 24 22:20:55 <kusanagi>        HariSeldon, yes.
Jul 24 22:20:57 <HariSeldon>        VoNC?
Jul 24 22:21:04 <kusanagi>        Vote of No confidence
Jul 24 22:21:09 <HariSeldon>        kusanagi - why was that not enforced?
Jul 24 22:21:20 <K`Tetch>        because it's NOT written in
Jul 24 22:21:21 <kusanagi>        lack of contact with those on the committees.
Jul 24 22:21:52 <K`Tetch>        Article VII (3) The PNC may specify the operating procedures of a Subcommittee and any criteria for its membership not otherwise specified in these Bylaws. Any operating procedures or membership criteria not specified by the PNC shall be determined by the members of the Subcommittee.
Jul 24 22:23:22 <HariSeldon>        ktetch, then we should make it written in
Jul 24 22:23:44 <K`Tetch>        There's lots we *should* do.
Jul 24 22:23:47 <HariSeldon>        kusanagi, cant we just disband them and get new ppl, then? or do we not have enough volunteers
Jul 24 22:23:58 <kusanagi>        lack of volunteers.
Jul 24 22:24:33 <HariSeldon>        which means we come right back to a lack of visibility, state recruitment, and participation
Jul 24 22:24:44 <HariSeldon>        we need to have a critical mass
Jul 24 22:25:33 <Bluestreak>        I am very happy we even HAVE an IT committee
Jul 24 22:26:09 <HariSeldon>        Bluestreak - i am too. but I would suggest giving the IT committee an ultimatum - if they do not report to pnc within x number of days, then the committee is disbanded
Jul 24 22:26:11 <K`Tetch>        I'd prefer an actual one, rather than the illusion of one
Jul 24 22:26:23 <kusanagi>        K`Tetch, i agree.
Jul 24 22:26:37 <K`Tetch>        HariSeldon - the committee is here
Jul 24 22:26:42 <K`Tetch>        it's CalebLangeslag and matuck
Jul 24 22:26:48 <HariSeldon>        well, then report, damnit!
Jul 24 22:26:54 <Bluestreak>        LOL
Jul 24 22:27:10 <kusanagi>        matuck left the IT committee last year
Jul 24 22:27:15 <kusanagi>        CalebL[phone], ping
Jul 24 22:27:24 <K`Tetch>        still listed on the IT committee page
Jul 24 22:27:27 <kusanagi>        after his child was born
Jul 24 22:27:40 <K`Tetch>        see, this is the problem, records are USELESS
Jul 24 22:27:49 <HariSeldon>        well then IT page needs to be updated - can it be done by ppl other than IT?
Jul 24 22:27:57 <HariSeldon>        the updating i meanm
Jul 24 22:28:09 <CalebL[phone]>        You're free to update it
Jul 24 22:28:25 <K`Tetch>        so were you, after all, was YOUR committee
Jul 24 22:28:36 <HariSeldon>        thank you caleb. do you have a progress report of any sort for your committee?
Jul 24 22:29:09 <Bluestreak>        ++
Jul 24 22:29:13 <CalebL[phone]>        The last meeting was primarily regarding discussion of the social network project
Jul 24 22:29:36 <HariSeldon>        I for one would like something substantial to prove the IT committee is doing its job
Jul 24 22:29:38 <CalebL[phone]>        Whereas prior discussion had been on finalizing the website
Jul 24 22:29:45 <HariSeldon>        ok, what have you DONE?
Jul 24 22:29:55 <HariSeldon>        discussion is good, though
Jul 24 22:29:56 <CalebL[phone]>        What would you like to see done?
Jul 24 22:30:09 <HariSeldon>        i just want to know if anything has been done
Jul 24 22:30:15 <CalebL[phone]>        Is there something you want implemented?
Jul 24 22:30:15 <K`Tetch>        lets see, what you were supposed to have gotten done months ago would be a start
Jul 24 22:30:15 <HariSeldon>        i have heard nothing
Jul 24 22:30:38 <CalebL[phone]>        There haven't been any major projects brought to the desk
Jul 24 22:30:50 <K`Tetch>        hows about 'the new website'
Jul 24 22:30:58 <Bluestreak>        Tell us about the social network?
Jul 24 22:30:58 <HariSeldon>        ktetch, for gods sake, i know you have a burnt hand but please stop whining unless you have a suggestion to contribute.
Jul 24 22:31:16 <HariSeldon>        +bluestreak
Jul 24 22:31:50 <CalebL[phone]>        The social network concept had been drafted out to quite an extent, but nobody really available for proactive development of it yet
Jul 24 22:31:52 <K`Tetch>        HariSeldon - nothing to do with my hand, I just have zero tollerance for incompetence and bluster
Jul 24 22:32:18 <kusanagi>        CalebL[phone], have any meetings been announced in any way?
Jul 24 22:32:52 <Bluestreak>        OK well, I will bring up the need for developers at the meeting on Sunday. OK?
Jul 24 22:33:09 <Bluestreak>        We might be able to get some MAPPs on the job
Jul 24 22:33:25 <K`Tetch>        I for one would first like to see the website finished, and the wiki merge finished.
Jul 24 22:33:30 <K`Tetch>        I think they're more important
Jul 24 22:33:30 <CalebL[phone]>        There hasn't been any recently announced meetings, since interest has slipped a little
Jul 24 22:33:36 <Bluestreak>        Yeah, well I'm not waiting
Jul 24 22:33:47 <Bluestreak>        To mention it, that is.
Jul 24 22:33:56 <HariSeldon>        Caleb, i would like to point out that if you put out a request for something in the SAB, it might be done faster, instead of relying on just your committee
Jul 24 22:34:03 <CalebL[phone]>        Duly noted
Jul 24 22:34:12 <Bluestreak>        Oh yeah, always use the SAB
Jul 24 22:34:14 <HariSeldon>        pursuing two routes instead of one
Jul 24 22:34:46 <kusanagi>        and the social media
Jul 24 22:35:00 <kusanagi>        we have a facebook, twitter and g+ page
Jul 24 22:35:07 <kusanagi>        scream it out
Jul 24 22:35:12 <HariSeldon>        loud
Jul 24 22:35:33 <Bluestreak>        I was just chatting with a developer activist as we met here, moments ago, on Google.
Jul 24 22:36:52 <Bluestreak>        He prolly knows someone who is available. Do get the website done, though.
Jul 24 22:36:53 <Bluestreak>        Do you need help with that, too?
Jul 24 22:36:53 <kusanagi>        I think we do
Jul 24 22:36:53 <CalebL[phone]>        I believe it's primarily regarding content
Jul 24 22:36:53 <Bluestreak>        Is it a blog page? Do you have something in progress you can shoot me a link to?
Jul 24 22:36:53 <kusanagi>        most of the work has been left for one person
Jul 24 22:37:04 <CalebL[phone]>        If you have suggestions for content to be added, feel free to email either of us
Jul 24 22:37:35 <HariSeldon>        no - we should be able to add content ourselves
Jul 24 22:37:35 <HariSeldon>        always
Jul 24 22:37:35 <kusanagi>        there was a proposed content committee.
Jul 24 22:37:35 <CalebL[phone]>        The website is the live one at
Jul 24 22:37:37 <HariSeldon>        suggestions take time
Jul 24 22:37:43 <kusanagi>        but i don't know if that came to fruition.
Jul 24 22:37:44 <K`Tetch>        it's more like finishing the pages - half of them don't work, or are in German
Jul 24 22:37:51 <K`Tetch>        that's a BAD image to give off
Jul 24 22:38:09 <HariSeldon>        caleb - what ktetch is saying - that should be IT
Jul 24 22:38:19 <HariSeldon>        but content should be crowdsources
Jul 24 22:38:24 <HariSeldon>        *crowdsourced
Jul 24 22:38:30 <HariSeldon>        not from any committee
Jul 24 22:38:37 <CalebL[phone]>        Everyone was given the ability to build the website in the very beginning, but very little progress was made by being crowdsourced
Jul 24 22:38:37 <K`Tetch>        liek
Jul 24 22:38:57 <HariSeldon>        well, lets do it again.
Jul 24 22:39:13 <CalebL[phone]>        As people were preaching exactly to have access for that reason, and it was given, but nobody did anything with it
Jul 24 22:39:25 <HariSeldon>        ok, but not just to build the website
Jul 24 22:39:27 <HariSeldon>        not even that
Jul 24 22:39:33 <HariSeldon>        just to write like a blog
Jul 24 22:39:38 <HariSeldon>        writing articles
Jul 24 22:39:44 <HariSeldon>        and then we have one editor
Jul 24 22:39:50 <HariSeldon>        i will volunteer for that position
Jul 24 22:39:59 <CalebL[phone]>        I can copy the current website, and have a beta version for prototyping further content
Jul 24 22:40:31 <Bluestreak>        Seite nicht gefunden 
Jul 24 22:43:14 <CalebL[phone]>        I'd be willing to grant you the privileges to the live website, once I'm at my desktop later tonight
Jul 24 22:43:15 <CalebL[phone]>        The theme isn't properly localized
Jul 24 22:43:15 <CalebL[phone]>        Or whichever the term is
Jul 24 22:43:15 <HariSeldon>        is it a drupal site?
Jul 24 22:43:15 <CalebL[phone]>        WordPress
Jul 24 22:43:15 <HariSeldon>        ok - i'll have to get used to that, then
Jul 24 22:43:15 <Bluestreak>        Well I am still going to tell ppl at the MAPP IPM that PNC is looking for social network developers.
Jul 24 22:43:15 <HariSeldon>        i ususally use drupal
Jul 24 22:43:15 <HariSeldon>        blue - please do
Jul 24 22:43:15 <HariSeldon>        we probably need them
Jul 24 22:43:15 <kusanagi>        not probably
Jul 24 22:43:15 <kusanagi>        we do
Jul 24 22:43:15 <HariSeldon>        +
Jul 24 22:43:15 <HariSeldon>        absolutely
Jul 24 22:43:15 <MrSquared>        If you need an english background image, i'd be more than happy to help
Jul 24 22:43:15 <CalebL[phone]>        If you ever require assistance with WordPress, you're free to contact with questions, or even call
Jul 24 22:43:15 <HariSeldon>        phone is in sig for SAB?
Jul 24 22:43:15 <CalebL[phone]>        I can send it directly via email
Jul 24 22:43:24 <kusanagi>        MrSquared, that would be so very appreciated.
Jul 24 22:43:27 <CalebL[phone]>        But yes, anyone is free to contribute what they want to, to the website
Jul 24 22:44:02 <kusanagi>        it's bloody needed
Jul 24 22:44:05 <kusanagi>        we need help.
Jul 24 22:44:09 <kusanagi>        that's it. right there.
Jul 24 22:44:15 <HariSeldon>        i will gladly edit
Jul 24 22:44:16 *        K`Tetch has asked for access for months, and got nothing
Jul 24 22:44:20 <HariSeldon>        i like editing
Jul 24 22:44:32 <kusanagi>        K`Tetch, really?
Jul 24 22:44:46 <kusanagi>        CalebL[phone], he gets an account. Tonight.
Jul 24 22:45:04 <Bluestreak>        Yay!
Jul 24 22:45:34 <kusanagi>        is there anyone who needs an account
Jul 24 22:45:41 <HariSeldon>        caleb, i request that the IT committee report at every pnc meeting, even if it is to say that nothing has been accomplished
Jul 24 22:46:18 <HariSeldon>        kusanagi, i request that we amend the bylaws to make it a requirement that every commitee formed do the same
Jul 24 22:46:35 <kusanagi>        we can do that.
Jul 24 22:46:43 <HariSeldon>        now?
Jul 24 22:46:45 <CalebL[phone]>        Just need an email address, feel free to private message it to my desktop (CalebLangeslag)
Jul 24 22:47:29 <kusanagi>        if you want, yes.
Jul 24 22:47:53 <CalebL[phone]>        For everyone that needs a WordPress account
Jul 24 22:47:56 <HariSeldon>        how?
Jul 24 22:48:12 <HariSeldon>        i am not very good at the whole amending bylaws thing
Jul 24 22:48:27 <kusanagi>        make a motion to amend it next meeting
Jul 24 22:48:35 <kusanagi>        come up with the wording
Jul 24 22:49:07 <CalebL[phone]>        But yes, I'll follow up on the responsibility of reporting to every PNC meeting
Jul 24 22:50:03 <HariSeldon>        i move that we amend the bylaws of the PNC at the July 31st meeting to adopt a reporting requirement for committees to the PNC with wording to be determined
Jul 24 22:50:19 <HariSeldon>        caleb thank you
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Jul 24 22:50:58 <kusanagi>        second?
Jul 24 22:51:07 <CalebL[phone]>        You don't need to motion it to be on the next agenda
Jul 24 22:51:08 <Bluestreak>        2nd
Jul 24 22:53:03 <HariSeldon>        well thats awkward
Jul 24 22:53:30 <kusanagi>        Oh, well, then OyajiVyse, note it for next week's agenda.
Jul 24 22:54:24 <OyajiVyse>        already in the minutes, will do
Jul 24 22:54:32 <kusanagi>        thank you.
Jul 24 22:54:37 <kusanagi>        Also of mention
Jul 24 22:54:51 <kusanagi>        We need money to do things. I'm sure you understand that.
Jul 24 22:55:05 <kusanagi>        Servers to pay for, etc.
Jul 24 22:55:22 <kusanagi>        I'd like to finally open some sort of acount at a financial institution.
Jul 24 22:55:34 <HariSeldon>        absolutely
Jul 24 22:55:38 <Bluestreak>        I have a question:
Jul 24 22:55:40 <HariSeldon>        also do we have state dues?
Jul 24 22:55:41 <Bluestreak>        About dues
Jul 24 22:55:53 <HariSeldon>        haha
Jul 24 22:55:57 <kusanagi>        It's something I've been considering.
Jul 24 22:56:37 <HariSeldon>        but only for full member, not observer
Jul 24 22:56:45 <HariSeldon>        small amount 
Jul 24 22:56:48 <kusanagi>        yeah
Jul 24 22:56:48 <HariSeldon>        obviously
Jul 24 22:56:49 <Bluestreak>        How much money we talking here?
Jul 24 22:56:57 <CalebL[phone]>        Such as if we host the websites for the states
Jul 24 22:57:06 <Bluestreak>        Sure, but name a range
Jul 24 22:57:29 <HariSeldon>        kusanagi, what is the cost of hosting the servers we currently have, annually?
Jul 24 22:57:39 <HariSeldon>        for the pnc?
Jul 24 22:57:49 <kusanagi>        I defer that to CalebL[phone] 
Jul 24 22:58:11 <CalebL[phone]>        I currently have it on a VPS with my other clients. $40/month, check
Jul 24 22:58:56 <K`Tetch>        expensive...
Jul 24 22:59:20 <HariSeldon>        i think <$100 annually for each member state would be acceptable, at least from my perspective
Jul 24 22:59:54 <CalebL[phone]>        Can be done cheaper, or you can go with horribly oversold shared hosting, and greater probability of issues
Jul 24 23:00:02 <K`Tetch>        what is the storage space, and monthly bandwidth usage?
Jul 24 23:00:13 <K`Tetch>        for the site
Jul 24 23:00:26 <Bluestreak>        That is not a problem in MA
Jul 24 23:00:27 <CalebL[phone]>        You can do a $20/month VPS instead
Jul 24 23:00:27 <HariSeldon>        and would let us perhaps expand range of use for funds
Jul 24 23:00:31 <CalebL[phone]>        Check Linode
Jul 24 23:00:50 <K`Tetch>        CalebL[phone] - I could probably handle it for $10/year
Jul 24 23:01:13 <kusanagi>        damn, that's cheap.
Jul 24 23:01:18 <CalebL[phone]>        I provide it courtesy for now
Jul 24 23:01:18 <HariSeldon>        you sure?
Jul 24 23:01:30 <HariSeldon>        - to ktetch
Jul 24 23:01:35 <K`Tetch>        its what I use, 99.7% guarentee uptime,
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<K`Tetch> their basic shared plan should easily cover what we're using
<CalebL[phone]> If we're capable of funding something proper, without selling for less, that's when people can fund it, rather than being under my hosting
<HariSeldon> how much to expand?
<K`Tetch> for unlimited storage and bandwdith, $6/month
<HariSeldon> oh... wow
<kusanagi> whoa.
<CalebL[phone]> That's shared hosting..
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<K`Tetch> yes, which is fine for what we're doing CalebL[phone]
<HariSeldon> what sort of probilbility of issues are we talking about here?
<K`Tetch> we're not running video conferencing, or a UGC site
<HariSeldon> and what sort of issues
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<CalebL[phone]> It limits the capabilities
<K`Tetch> such as?
<CalebL[phone]> Especially with doing property optimization, additional security, putting it on Tor for example, so many things
<K`Tetch> er.. no it doesn't
<CalebL[phone]> Alright, go install memcached on a shared hosting company
<CalebL[phone]> shared hosting service*
<K`Tetch> I don't have time to teach you how to do it right now, CalebL[phone], but if you want, I'll show you how soon, ok? it's pretty easy
<HariSeldon> if you guys can figure out how we can switch over, and still get good service, that would be awesome
<kusanagi> it really would be
<K`Tetch> Of course, it's mostly academic, we don't need to be on Tor
<HariSeldon> would it perhaps be reasonable to have you two do this before next meeting and report on it?
<CalebL[phone]> And installing LiquidFeedback, just for the humor of argument
<kusanagi> HariSeldon, +1
<HariSeldon> PM each other, see if you can get a time to work.
<HariSeldon> i think that all of us would prefer to have this by next meeting so that we can wrap up this discussion and start taking action
<K`Tetch> I doubt I'll have the time needed to walk caleb through this stuff, sounds like it's going to take hours
<HariSeldon> try?
<kusanagi> try
<HariSeldon> please
<Bluestreak> What do you need help with, Caleb, exactly?
<CalebL[phone]> Keep up with the elitism K'Tetch
<Bluestreak> I was not being glib
<Bluestreak> I will ask in MA
<Bluestreak> Just need to know what you need that Andrew is too busy to do...
<CalebL[phone]> Not directed at you, just of K'Tetch preaching of the abomination that is shared hosting
<Bluestreak> Sorry FB chatting with my husband in NJ (oops)
<Bluestreak> Oh OK
<CalebL[phone]> Also, go ahead K'Tetch, install LQFB as a simple example of your praised shared hosting
<K`Tetch> caleb - for what the party needs, and uses, shared is where we're at. We're not reselling to others, or whever you're doing
<HariSeldon> caleb, correct me if im wrong, but its just that ktetch thinks it will take time to show you how the systems that we need can work on shared.
<K`Tetch> it took him 6 months to install wordpress and a pre-made theme! how long do you think this would take?
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<CalebL[phone]> I said I'm sponsoring the VPS hosting for PNC. It's nobody's cost but mine (which I'd completely covered, with no expense on my part) 
<HariSeldon> also - ktetch. im sure caleb knows his stuff. It may not take as long as you think
<HariSeldon> if it's all in one sitting, with the two of you working together, ktetch. it wont tak long
<HariSeldon> *take
<K`Tetch> if he's as good as he says, he should already know. If he needs help, he shouldn't even be on the IT team, let alone heading it
<HariSeldon> have you guys at least started working this out in a PM?
<CalebL[phone]> Oh for lord sake, I do several WordPress installs on a week, and implement designs. I'll give you examples of all the work I do for other companies, if you want to keep preaching your slanted trolling
<K`Tetch> So, it took you 6 months because you just couldn't be bothered?
<MrSquared> k, i'm out cause this is wasting everyone's time
<CalebL[phone]> How did it take me 6 months? It was installed, you just didn't care to even be present in IT meetings to know that the new website wad even being weighed on
<HariSeldon> caleb, give ktetch a chance. ktetch, if you're going to bother and bully caleb, at least do it in PM, not on here
<CalebL[phone]> Blah, Swype
<K`Tetch> The one one was 'broken' in November. The new one didn't go up until may. That seems like 6 months to me
<HariSeldon> kusanagi?
<CalebL[phone]> was even being worked on*
<kusanagi> HariSeldon, yes?
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<CalebL[phone]> And that's taking 6 months to install?
<HariSeldon> can we change subjuct and relegate these two to PM before they blow up the IRC?
<CalebL[phone]> Why do I even feed this trolling?
<K`Tetch> in fact the new one went up because I said, and I quote 'if it's not up in a week, will you resign' and you said yes. It was up.
<kusanagi> Yes.
<kusanagi> Guys, take it to PM.
<HariSeldon> and please work with each other
<HariSeldon> we could use a solution
<kusanagi> at least try to.
<CalebL[phone]> Ktetch is free to help, but he doesn't contribute, it's just complaining
<CalebL[phone]> Anyway, sorry
<HariSeldon> ok.. moving on
<HariSeldon> its ok
<kusanagi> thannk you.
<HariSeldon> kusanagi, should we continue efficiency debate? I don't think we're entirely done. otherwise move on to VPN or call it a night, i guess.
<CalebL[phone]> Phone battery low, I should be home soon though
<kusanagi> I was just about to
<kusanagi> We can move on to the VPN.. OyajiVyse, you added that on, was there something you wished to bring up?
<OyajiVyse> Nothing especially, it was brought up on the sab
<HariSeldon> it was
<kusanagi> oh, the blueVPN
<kusanagi> yes yes
<HariSeldon> good idea too, i think
<kusanagi> there was a .nl pirate who told me about that service
<kusanagi> Offered it to us to use
<OyajiVyse> It seems really interesting and I wanted to see what we could do with it, if anyone was interested
<kusanagi> well, it's not owned by US
<kusanagi> it's owned by .nl and isn't party affiliated.
<HariSeldon> whatever we do i would like to state that I think a VPN would be a great tool for all of us - for keeping track of the progress of projects, backing up our records, and providing more inter-state dialouge
<Bluestreak> Is it easy to install?
<kusanagi> someone used it and said it was wonderful
<kusanagi> I forgot who.
<HariSeldon> so what does blueVPN offer to us - what would their exact service be? 
<HariSeldon> and how much?
<kusanagi> use the VPN service
<kusanagi> that's really
<kusanagi> it
<itspara> its just a simple vpn tunneling service
<HariSeldon> ah
<kusanagi> itspara, identify pls
<HariSeldon> see, my only experience with vpn is with a company vpn, so thats what i was thinking
* itspara (~zoobopwin@us.pirate) has left #pnc (Leaving)
<kusanagi> I'm really not sure
<kusanagi> Mentor's email was given in the SAB email
<kusanagi> if you have questions, you're best off asking him.
<CalebLangeslag> now I'm alive
<kusanagi> ok, next thing..
<kusanagi> was there anything to be added to the policy discussion?
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<kusanagi> I know that's been ongoing.
<Bluestreak> We are putting off energy, education, and HSISP for another time, maybe?
<kusanagi> It can be further developed.
<HariSeldon> what is HSISP?
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<Bluestreak> High Speed ISP
<kusanagi> But more and more i'm starting to believe a committee should be formed just for that.
<itspara> Nick DeSalvio, maryland, whateveritscalled
<kusanagi> An accountable committee.
<itspara> observer I guess :P
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<HariSeldon> an accountable committee?
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<Bluestreak> For each policy?
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Jul 24 23:34:55 *        ChanServ gives channel operator status to OyajiVyse
Jul 24 23:35:12 <kusanagi>        one that reports at the PNC meetings.
Jul 24 23:35:19 <kusanagi>        then from there proposals
Jul 24 23:35:26 <HariSeldon>        no, no... I am of the firm belief that policy should be the result of the whole of the pnc... we can have a committee to word them up all nicely
Jul 24 23:36:09 <HariSeldon>        but the main points at least should be brought up by the people
Jul 24 23:36:29 <HariSeldon>        if we have weekly meetings, and if attendance holds, then we can do that with no problems
Jul 24 23:36:52 <HariSeldon>        those are two BIG ifs, i know
Jul 24 23:36:55 <kusanagi>        yeah
Jul 24 23:37:45 *        Sacha ( has left #pnc
Jul 24 23:37:52 <K`Tetch>        weekly meetings means attendance will fall
Jul 24 23:38:11 <HariSeldon>        i know - unless we work at it
Jul 24 23:38:13 <kusanagi>        It's already falling.
Jul 24 23:38:25 <kusanagi>        We have to work on it
Jul 24 23:38:28 <HariSeldon>        i volunteer as drill sergeant!
Jul 24 23:38:33 <K`Tetch>        its more the point of not enough gets done between them to make it worthwhile
Jul 24 23:38:39 <kusanagi>        and from what I understand, there's a new state party looking to join up
Jul 24 23:38:44 <kusanagi>        we need more people to help
Jul 24 23:38:48 <K`Tetch>        poor sods...
Jul 24 23:39:28 <kusanagi>        that's what it boils down to
Jul 24 23:39:41 <HariSeldon>        thus committees, thus reporting at meetings, thus todays discussion. good point, though - we need to somehow get more done between meetings
Jul 24 23:39:42 <kusanagi>        we're insanely shortstaffed.
Jul 24 23:39:51 <HariSeldon>        agreed.
Jul 24 23:39:56 <K`Tetch>        except in the area of chiefs, we got plenty of them
Jul 24 23:40:13 <HariSeldon>        i called editor, unless someone else wants it
Jul 24 23:40:43 <CalebLangeslag>        I still need emails for WordPress accounts
Jul 24 23:40:53 <CalebLangeslag>        I've been notified by HariSeldon, but not K`Tetch 
Jul 24 23:40:57 <K`Tetch>        BUT, because those chiefs are all PHB, it turns everyone else Wally
Jul 24 23:41:18 <K`Tetch>        if after all this time, you don't have my contact info, STILL, then there's no help
Jul 24 23:41:26 <Bluestreak>        I promised to write up something about HSISP and about energy policy but I got so burnt out promoting and participating in PirateCon while attending the D'Ambrosio hearings
Jul 24 23:41:36 <HariSeldon>        ktetch, did you pm caleb?
Jul 24 23:41:46 <HariSeldon>        pm him your contact info, that is
Jul 24 23:41:48 <Bluestreak>        Things have calmed down in MA for now. I will pick the ball back up.
Jul 24 23:41:54 <kusanagi>        thank you, Bluestreak 
Jul 24 23:42:13 <CalebLangeslag>        I'm just making a simple request, while everyone's still here; if you've already done so, I'll be looking back in the log anyway
Jul 24 23:42:47 <Bluestreak>        I sent an email to the SAB. Anyone who wants my info can look in the sig
Jul 24 23:43:12 <K`Tetch>        well, it's not changed in the 6 years I've been part of the pirate party, CalebLangeslag, so unless yu've lost records you should have emails, phone numbers, physical addresses, etc.
Jul 24 23:43:25 <Bluestreak>        It's Daniel who wants to work on energy policy with me, right?
Jul 24 23:43:46 <Bluestreak>        Oh lighten up!
Jul 24 23:43:51 <K`Tetch>        why should we be working on an energy policy?
Jul 24 23:44:00 <HariSeldon>        why not?
Jul 24 23:44:08 <Bluestreak>        Someone brought it up weeks ago
Jul 24 23:44:08 <K`Tetch>        well, it's not one of the core pirate points
Jul 24 23:44:23 <Bluestreak>        We could wait until later
Jul 24 23:44:30 *        CalebL[phone] ( has joined #pnc
Jul 24 23:44:39 <HariSeldon>        hmmmm...
Jul 24 23:44:41 <Bluestreak>        HSISP is a very Pirate issue though
Jul 24 23:44:45 <K`Tetch>        or we could carry on with the policy of it being left to states and/or candidates as we have done for years
Jul 24 23:44:48 <CalebLangeslag>        It was just a simple request, for the sake of my convenience, you really don't need to get all worked up over it
Jul 24 23:44:53 <Bluestreak>        Can't grow the party in the center of the country on dial up
Jul 24 23:44:54 <kusanagi>        Bluestreak, yes
Jul 24 23:45:02 <K`Tetch>        its a very ACTIVIST issue, Bluestreak, not a political party issue
Jul 24 23:45:08 <CalebLangeslag>        I could very likely find it anyway, I was just asking
Jul 24 23:45:33 <Bluestreak>        HSISP, K`Tetch ?
Jul 24 23:45:38 <K`Tetch>        yes
Jul 24 23:45:59 <K`Tetch>        unless I'm misunderstanding the intent behind it
Jul 24 23:46:18 <HariSeldon>        i don't think you are
Jul 24 23:46:22 <K`Tetch>        telling companies they'd better start rolling out faster access, as they're intended
Jul 24 23:46:41 <K`Tetch>        thats in the pirate ethos, I'm assuming you're talking about starting one, or something?
Jul 24 23:46:46 *        CalebL[mobile] has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
Jul 24 23:47:43 <K`Tetch>        first one is good, second not good
Jul 24 23:47:57 <K`Tetch>        I'm assuming yuo mean the second, by the title 'high speed isp'
Jul 24 23:48:15 <OyajiVyse>        Bluestreak, yes, sorry for the delay
Jul 24 23:48:36 <K`Tetch>        the first one have a title like 'increased broadband connectivity'
Jul 24 23:48:53 <Bluestreak>        Well no actually I think we should nationalize the telecoms
Jul 24 23:49:29 <HariSeldon>        then that is not a party position, i think
Jul 24 23:49:47 <Bluestreak>        Rather than supplicate to the telecoms
Jul 24 23:49:48 <HariSeldon>        that is making an economic policy out of an internet freedom policy
Jul 24 23:49:52 <CalebLangeslag>        Hey ol buddy ol pal K`Tetch, since you preach of all my errors and of your better solutions, how about you free to go ahead and move the website over to your hosting provider, and I just step down from all involvement of IT committee?
Jul 24 23:49:52 <Bluestreak>        Oh PLEASE!
Jul 24 23:50:05 <CalebLangeslag>        Since you seem more motivated over it
Jul 24 23:50:08 <Bluestreak>        Please sir? May I have some more bandwidth?
Jul 24 23:50:29 <CalebLangeslag>        I mean in all sincerity, not as a snide remark
Jul 24 23:51:07 <CalebLangeslag>        You can go ahead and do all your hope and change with the IT committee, that you criticize it to do
Jul 24 23:51:25 <K`Tetch>        In 3 months, maybe, once I have some free time (I don't take on invovled projects I know I don't have sufficient time to do)
Jul 24 23:51:59 <Bluestreak>        Just ignore his complaining
Jul 24 23:52:07 <HariSeldon>        bluestreak, i dont understand the meaning behind your comment
Jul 24 23:52:17 <HariSeldon>        caleb, you better not resign on us.
Jul 24 23:52:24 <Bluestreak>        which one?
Jul 24 23:52:33 <CalebLangeslag>        K`Tetch says I can't do my job, apparently
Jul 24 23:52:42 <Bluestreak>        Ignore him!
Jul 24 23:52:45 <K`Tetch>        not can't, haven't been
Jul 24 23:52:57 <Bluestreak>        Do your best. Keep showing up
Jul 24 23:53:07 <Bluestreak>        Invite your friends.
Jul 24 23:53:12 <Bluestreak>        What more can we do?
Jul 24 23:53:12 <HariSeldon>        you're doing a great job and i for one appreciate the honesty and openness that you have displayed throughout the duration of this meeting
Jul 24 23:54:20 <HariSeldon>        as long as you hold true to your promises, i see no reason why the pnc would ever want to be rid of you, especially given the work you have already done for us
Jul 24 23:54:36 <CalebLangeslag>        But in sincerity, I do admit that I am usually quite busy that I can't quite actively get to things promptly
Jul 24 23:54:51 <K`Tetch>        so SAY SOMETHING
Jul 24 23:55:07 <HariSeldon>        caleb, as am i. which is why it is good that bluestreak will be asking for help
Jul 24 23:55:28 <Bluestreak>        Help with the blog, too?
Jul 24 23:55:39 <K`Tetch>        instead of keeping quiet, and only getting to things when I've had to rake you over the coals
Jul 24 23:55:47 <kusanagi>        K`Tetch is right.
Jul 24 23:55:51 <kusanagi>        You have to speak up
Jul 24 23:55:55 <HariSeldon>        agred
Jul 24 23:55:59 <kusanagi>        needing help is not a fault
Jul 24 23:56:03 <Bluestreak>        Always ask for help
Jul 24 23:56:15 <HariSeldon>        which is why i am glad you agreed to do weekly reports
Jul 24 23:56:16 <K`Tetch>        and prioritization too
Jul 24 23:56:32 <K`Tetch>        sure it's great you've got these great ideas, but you got to get the basics done and finished first
Jul 24 23:57:07 <HariSeldon>        can we get back to the policy discussion now?
Jul 24 23:57:18 <HariSeldon>        or is there anything else?
Jul 24 23:57:26 <HariSeldon>        we are totally off track
Jul 24 23:57:49 <Bluestreak>        I have to make a point that I read in Swarmwise:
Jul 24 23:57:57 <Bluestreak>        About limiting the time of the meetings
Jul 24 23:58:11 <Bluestreak>        whether you feel it is done or not there should be a set end time
Jul 24 23:58:22 <HariSeldon>        and we have reached it
Jul 24 23:58:25 <HariSeldon>        i think so too
Jul 24 23:58:31 <HariSeldon>        well, in two minutes
Jul 24 23:58:33 <Bluestreak>        3 hours is a long time
Jul 24 23:58:35 <kusanagi>        yeah.
Jul 24 23:58:45 <Bluestreak>        2 would be better
Jul 24 23:59:03 <kusanagi>        We'll mandate that meetings are 2 hours max as of next week.
Jul 24 23:59:06 <Bluestreak>        We IRC in MA for about 90 minutes every week
Jul 24 23:59:11 <K`Tetch>        I'm not even sure we have quorum any more
Jul 24 23:59:13 <kusanagi>        s/We'll/I'll
Jul 24 23:59:17 <kusanagi>        we do
Jul 24 23:59:20 <kusanagi>        quorum is 4
Jul 24 23:59:25 <K`Tetch>        PPUK board does a months work in a 1 hour period
Jul 24 23:59:25 <Bluestreak>        :-D
Jul 24 23:59:35 <HariSeldon>        i move we table the current discussion and put it and the undiscussed items on today's agenda onto next week's
Jul 24 23:59:38 <K`Tetch>        or rather a montly meeting in 1 hour
Jul 24 23:59:40 <Bluestreak>        I want to be PPUK when I grow up!
Jul 25 00:00:36 <OyajiVyse>        seconded
Jul 25 00:01:38 <Bluestreak>        lol
Jul 25 00:01:54 <HariSeldon>        ummmm....
Jul 25 00:02:04 <HariSeldon>        so... passed?
Jul 25 00:02:08 <kusanagi>        Motion seconded
Jul 25 00:02:21 <kusanagi>        However, there wasn't much left after this
Jul 25 00:02:24 <kusanagi>        it was just AOB
Jul 25 00:02:36 <HariSeldon>        motion to adjourn
Jul 25 00:02:58 <Bluestreak>        2nd
Jul 25 00:03:12 <kusanagi>        vote to adjourn
Jul 25 00:03:16 <HariSeldon>        aye
Jul 25 00:03:28 <OyajiVyse>        aye
Jul 25 00:04:24 <kusanagi>        Bluestreak, K`Tetch 
Jul 25 00:04:32 <Bluestreak>        aye
Jul 25 00:04:40 <Bluestreak>        sorry spacing out
Jul 25 00:04:49 *        CalebL[mobile] ( has joined #pnc
Jul 25 00:04:57 <kusanagi>        happens
Jul 25 00:04:59 <Bluestreak>        I have to get my kid packed for camp
Jul 25 00:05:03 <kusanagi>        K`Tetc
Jul 25 00:05:27 <K`Tetch>        huh what?
Jul 25 00:05:31 <Bluestreak>        LOL
Jul 25 00:05:37 <Bluestreak>        Hope your hand feels better
Jul 25 00:05:48 <Bluestreak>        for reals
Jul 25 00:05:52 <kusanagi>        there was a motion to adjourn
Jul 25 00:05:58 <kusanagi>        3 aye, 1 abstain
Jul 25 00:06:05 <kusanagi>        have a good night
Jul 25 00:06:08 <kusanagi>        we're back to weekly