PNC 10/2/13

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::PNC Meeting Agenda::

--- 10/22/2013 21:00h EDT ---
Room: #pnc


IT report

Removal of non-active states from PNC

  • Discussion centered around CA and other inactive states
  • Motion brought forth to put CA on probation
    • Motion to delay probationary measure until next meeting
      • 5 ayes, 0 nay, 0 abstain Motion passed

Proposal: Content Committee formation, focus, and scope

  • Motion to postpone discussion of committee until next meeting, at which time a document with the committee's purpose and charter shall be presented
    • 5 aye, 0 nay, 0 abstain Motion passed

Proposal: Content Committee formation, focus, and scope

  • Motion to postpone discussion until next meeting
    • 5 aye, 0 nay, 0 abstain Motion Passed

Proposal: Change of meeting structure as per SAB email by A. Norton

  • Motion for an amendment at a later time to the bylaws, Article 6, section 1: the creation of subsection 4, worded as follows: The agenda items of the PNC meetings shall be proposed by the members of the PNC. Each proposed agenda item must be made public at least 48 hours in advance of the meeting and have sufficient supporting information included"
    • 5 aye, 0 nay, 0 abstain Motion Passed

Press release re: gov shutdown

  • Postponed to next meeting due to lack of time



1.1 - Members of the PNC


  • FL - Bradley Hall
  • WI - Francis Klein
  • MA - Lucia Fiero
  • GA - Andrew Norton
  • NY - Daniel Gorski


  • N/A


  • CA
  • WA
  • OR


  • N/A

1.2 - At Large Members of the PNC

  • N/A

1.3 - Officers of the PNC

  • Lindsay-Anne Brunner - Captain
  • Daniel Gorski - Quartermaster

1.4 - Other Attendess

  • Joseph Klein - WI, IT


  • Meeting called to order at: 9:25 pm EDT
  • Meeting chaired by Lindsay-Anne Brunner
  • Secretary for this meeting is Daniel Gorski
  • Quorum is established: 5 out of 8 Members present
  • Logging Enabled: Yes

3 - Review of previous minutes


IT Committee

  • Saturday's meeting was not conducive for content discussion
  • Next meeting to be posted on SAB list

5 - Agenda Items

  • Removal of non-active states from PNC
  • Proposal: Convention Committee formation, focus, and scope
  • Proposal: Content Committee formation, focus, and scope
  • Proposal: Change of meeting structure as per SAB email by A. Norton
  • Press release re: gov shutdown

- AOB -


  • Meeting on October 16th cancelled due to lack of officers

Next meeting: October 9th at 9:00 PM EDT

Meeting closed: 11:05 PM EDT

Logs of the Meeting

Oct 02 21:25:53 <kusanagi>        Ok, 9:25pm, call this meeting to order. Please identify yourself with your name and state of residence
Oct 02 21:26:06 <Rush>        Bradley Hall, Florida
Oct 02 21:26:12 <FrancisKlein>        Francis Klein, WI
Oct 02 21:26:17 <OyajiVyse>        Daniel Gorski, Quartermaster, NY
Oct 02 21:26:31 <kusanagi>        Lindsay-Anne Brunner, Chair, NY
Oct 02 21:26:42 <kusanagi>        ping Bluestreak 
Oct 02 21:26:54 <Bluestreak>        Lucia Fiero MA rep
Oct 02 21:27:58 <kusanagi>        Awesome. Please note that we will be closing this meeting at 11pm the latest, as per the usual
Oct 02 21:28:11 <kusanagi>        ping Bosun 
Oct 02 21:28:29 <kusanagi>        First up is IT Committee report.
Oct 02 21:28:31 <Bosun>        Joseph Klein
Oct 02 21:28:49 <kusanagi>        from WI, correct?
Oct 02 21:29:58 <kusanagi>        Bosun: anything new?
Oct 02 21:30:05 <Bosun>        Yes WI
Oct 02 21:31:35 <Bosun>        Saturdays\'s meeting was a bust … we failed to have the content discussion.  We try again next Saturday and I will post tomorrow on SAB and IT a reminder.
Oct 02 21:32:13 <FrancisKlein>        Mostly my fault - I failed to show
Oct 02 21:32:53 <Bosun>        I will give this more attention when I finish the firewall move I'm doing at work. Going to devote some time to learning everything we have.
Oct 02 21:33:28 <kusanagi>        there were 3 people there, myself included.
Oct 02 21:33:35 *        MattW (webchat@143.236.qtw.xsi) has joined #pnc
Oct 02 21:33:41 <kusanagi>        Sometimes you'll have to make-do with what little we got.
Oct 02 21:33:49 *        K`Tetch (~no@international.pirate) has joined #pnc
Oct 02 21:34:01 <Bosun>        We have good talented people, we just need to do some resource management.
Oct 02 21:34:11 <kusanagi>        indeed.
Oct 02 21:34:21 <K`Tetch>        what did I miss?
Oct 02 21:34:30 <kusanagi>        K`Tetch: identify please
Oct 02 21:34:34 <Bluestreak>        We started late
Oct 02 21:34:49 <K`Tetch>        Andrew Norton, PPGA spokesman (PPUK governor)
Oct 02 21:34:56 <kusanagi>        Bosun: is that all for IT this week?
Oct 02 21:35:03 <kusanagi>        Any announcements, or anything?
Oct 02 21:35:04 <Bosun>        yes.
Oct 02 21:35:09 <kusanagi>        Gotcha.
Oct 02 21:35:30 <kusanagi>        Onward to the agenda.
Oct 02 21:35:43 <kusanagi>        First bullet: removal of non-active states from the PNC.
Oct 02 21:36:13 <kusanagi>        I've talked about this at length on a few occasions, as I'm sure many remember.
Oct 02 21:36:55 <kusanagi>        It's still up to you guys to keep the non-actives in or not. California is the main offender at this point
Oct 02 21:37:23 <kusanagi>        Anyone have anything to add/
Oct 02 21:37:25 <kusanagi>        ?
Oct 02 21:37:30 <Bluestreak>        Maybe giving CA the boot will be the kick in the pants they need
Oct 02 21:38:02 <FrancisKlein>        Point of order: I will be right back, giving voting to Bosun for a short time.
Oct 02 21:38:10 <kusanagi>        FrancisKlein: thank you
Oct 02 21:38:30 <kusanagi>        Bluestreak: possibly, the facebook page is still active, but no responses to anyone.
Oct 02 21:38:32 <K`Tetch>        "kick in the pants" how?
Oct 02 21:38:38 <Rush>        Is anyone even IN the CAPP?
Oct 02 21:38:50 <OyajiVyse>        which other states aside from CA are under consideration?
Oct 02 21:38:55 <Bluestreak>        Sometimes being reprimanded is a motivator
Oct 02 21:39:19 <Bluestreak>        kusanagi has been reaching out to them for weeks
Oct 02 21:39:27 <kusanagi>        more like months.
Oct 02 21:39:28 <K`Tetch>        who is 'them'
Oct 02 21:39:33 <Bluestreak>        CA rep
Oct 02 21:39:40 <kusanagi>        K`Tetch: California Pirate Party
Oct 02 21:39:46 <K`Tetch>        right, WHO
Oct 02 21:40:01 <Bluestreak>        IDK. I'm the MA rep
Oct 02 21:40:14 <kusanagi>        OrionSteele
Oct 02 21:40:17 <Rush>        Does the CA party even HAVE a rep or a person in charge?
Oct 02 21:40:37 <Bluestreak>        LOL maybe if we ALL reached out to CAPP
Oct 02 21:40:39 <kusanagi>        Orion was the point of contact, the president of CAPP was someone else
Oct 02 21:40:45 <K`Tetch>        didn't orion leave like 2 years ago?
Oct 02 21:41:06 <kusanagi>        he just joined 1 year ago.
Oct 02 21:41:41 <kusanagi>        So, no
Oct 02 21:41:52 <K`Tetch>        I know I've got logs of him back in 09
Oct 02 21:41:56 <kusanagi>        he and the rest of CAPP disappeared this past january
Oct 02 21:42:00 <K`Tetch>        because I was looking through them for NAte Anderson
Oct 02 21:42:04 <kusanagi>        he was new in 2011.
Oct 02 21:42:10 <kusanagi>        2012
Oct 02 21:42:32 <K`Tetch>        maybe he left and came abck, I could swear he was around in 09
Oct 02 21:42:40 <K`Tetch>        maybe even earlier
Oct 02 21:42:44 <K`Tetch>        chan6 would know better
Oct 02 21:42:46 <kusanagi>        That's of no matter.
Oct 02 21:43:04 <kusanagi>        Point is, they were here, they joined PNC, and have since vanished.
Oct 02 21:43:17 <kusanagi>        emails and calls have been unreturned.
Oct 02 21:43:34 <Bluestreak>        You msg the FB page?
Oct 02 21:43:42 <Bosun>        last google+ entry is january
Oct 02 21:43:49 <kusanagi>        At this point, they are WAY beyond the point of allowance
Oct 02 21:43:54 <kusanagi>        Bluestreak: yep
Oct 02 21:44:03 <Bluestreak>        Give the boot!
Oct 02 21:44:24 <kusanagi>        Well, state rep from MA, I can't just do that
Oct 02 21:44:27 <OyajiVyse>        according to the bylaws, they are to be put on probation first
Oct 02 21:44:29 <kusanagi>        or it would have been done.
Oct 02 21:44:53 <Bosun>        i move we put ca on probation
Oct 02 21:44:57 <Bluestreak>        Oops
Oct 02 21:45:24 <Bluestreak>        2nd
Oct 02 21:45:31 <OyajiVyse>        then after a month of inaction from that time, they are left to observer status
Oct 02 21:45:53 <kusanagi>        OyajiVyse: correct
Oct 02 21:46:20 <kusanagi>        motion to put CAPP on probation has been seconded.
Oct 02 21:46:27 <OyajiVyse>        all in favor?
Oct 02 21:46:42 <Bosun>        discussion ...
Oct 02 21:46:50 <Bosun>        not so fast
Oct 02 21:47:13 <kusanagi>        OyajiVyse is a bit fast on the draw there
Oct 02 21:47:25 <kusanagi>        Is there any further discussion before the vote?
Oct 02 21:47:44 <K`Tetch>        discussion should have been prior to the meeting. Now we have some details, I'd like to discuss it with my own state party, and maybe try my own attempt
Oct 02 21:48:08 <Bluestreak>        Fair enought IMO
Oct 02 21:48:12 <FrancisKlein>        back. sorry about that. 
Oct 02 21:48:23 <kusanagi>        We have spoken about it previously, K`Tetch 
Oct 02 21:48:24 <Bosun>        is that a motion to table?
Oct 02 21:48:29 <Bluestreak>        Move to give rep from GA a wekk
Oct 02 21:48:35 <Bluestreak>        week
Oct 02 21:48:46 <Bosun>        no  not roberts
Oct 02 21:49:05 <Bluestreak>        Sry. No other MAP wanted this job
Oct 02 21:49:12 <Bosun>        we can table the motion.
Oct 02 21:49:38 <FrancisKlein>        I move that the motion be tabled for one week
Oct 02 21:49:44 <Bluestreak>        2nd
Oct 02 21:50:53 <kusanagi>        motion to table further discussion on CAPP to next week seconded.
Oct 02 21:51:07 <Rush>        aye
Oct 02 21:51:13 <FrancisKlein>        Call the vote, please?
Oct 02 21:51:29 <Bosun>
Oct 02 21:51:43 <Bosun>        can just vote up or down
Oct 02 21:52:10 <K`Tetch>        AYE
Oct 02 21:52:15 <Bluestreak>        aye
Oct 02 21:52:24 <kusanagi>        OyajiVyse: 
Oct 02 21:52:25 <OyajiVyse>        aye
Oct 02 21:52:31 <FrancisKlein>        aye
Oct 02 21:52:33 <kusanagi>        Vote called. Tally?
Oct 02 21:52:52 <OyajiVyse>        the ayes have it
Oct 02 21:52:59 <OyajiVyse>        4 aye, 0 against, 0 abstain
Oct 02 21:53:05 <OyajiVyse>        motion passed
Oct 02 21:53:09 <kusanagi>        thanks.
Oct 02 21:53:52 <FrancisKlein>        Point of information: Does the captain need to call the vote in order for members to vote?
Oct 02 21:55:00 <kusanagi>        yes.
Oct 02 21:55:28 <FrancisKlein>        Point of order: the vote was never called for
Oct 02 21:55:39 <kusanagi>        Also Correct.
Oct 02 21:55:45 <kusanagi>        Revote required.
Oct 02 21:55:57 <kusanagi>        motion to table further discussion on CAPP to next week seconded. All in favor?
Oct 02 21:56:00 <FrancisKlein>        aye
Oct 02 21:56:11 <Rush>        aye
Oct 02 21:56:30 <OyajiVyse>        aye
Oct 02 21:56:35 *        kusanagi gives voice to K`Tetch
Oct 02 21:56:45 <kusanagi>        forgot to voice you, K`Tetch, sorrry
Oct 02 21:56:52 <K`Tetch>        aye
Oct 02 21:58:09 <kusanagi>        Bluestreak: 
Oct 02 21:58:14 <Bluestreak>        aye
Oct 02 21:58:23 <kusanagi>        vote called, tally?
Oct 02 21:58:35 <OyajiVyse>        5 aye, 0 nay, 0 abstain
Oct 02 21:58:37 <OyajiVyse>        ayes have it
Oct 02 21:58:40 <OyajiVyse>        motion passed
Oct 02 21:59:06 <kusanagi>        okay, please add that to next week's agenda, OyajiVyse 
Oct 02 21:59:30 <kusanagi>        next:  Convention Committee formation, focus, and scope
Oct 02 21:59:38 <kusanagi>        I believe it was FrancisKlein who proposed
Oct 02 21:59:41 <kusanagi>        You have the floor.
Oct 02 22:01:00 <FrancisKlein>        I believe that a convention committee is necessary in order to make any progress as an organization towards a national convention
Oct 02 22:01:26 <kusanagi>        And since elections are sooner than we think, it's needed, correct?
Oct 02 22:01:59 <K`Tetch>        correct, elections should be started end of this month
Oct 02 22:02:13 <FrancisKlein>        If there is a committee specifically for that purpose, which would have to report to the pnc every meeting,
Oct 02 22:02:24 <FrancisKlein>        then I feel more would get done on the subject.
Oct 02 22:02:36 <FrancisKlein>        to that end, I would like such a committee created
Oct 02 22:03:11 <Bluestreak>        motion?
Oct 02 22:03:20 <FrancisKlein>        with the specific purpose of organizing whatever resources are necessary for a national convention of the Pirate Party at a time to be determined by the pnc
Oct 02 22:04:05 <kusanagi>        FrancisKlein: understood.
Oct 02 22:04:22 <FrancisKlein>        point of information: 
Oct 02 22:04:36 <FrancisKlein>        would an amendment to the bylaws of the PNC be neceassary? 
Oct 02 22:04:39 <kusanagi>        no.
Oct 02 22:04:41 <FrancisKlein>        I believe it would not
Oct 02 22:04:41 <FrancisKlein>        ok
Oct 02 22:04:45 <FrancisKlein>        well then
Oct 02 22:05:12 <FrancisKlein>        I move that the PNC create a convention committee under the subcommittee bylaws of the PNC with the specific purpose of organizing the logistics and recruiting help for setting up a Pirate national convention at a date and frequency set by the PNC. 
Oct 02 22:06:06 <kusanagi>        Any second?
Oct 02 22:06:16 <Bluestreak>        2nd
Oct 02 22:07:06 <FrancisKlein>        point of order: I believe the chair should call for debate at this point
Oct 02 22:07:49 <K`Tetch>        ok, what do you mean by 'frequency to be set' - how often are you envisioning it?
Oct 02 22:08:16 <kusanagi>        FrancisKlein: a motion was made and it seemed like you wanted to vote on it.
Oct 02 22:08:19 <kusanagi>        I apologize
Oct 02 22:08:56 <K`Tetch>        and are you visualising a physical convention, or an online one?
Oct 02 22:08:58 <FrancisKlein>        If it pleases the chair, I move the body enter into a maximum 3 minute debate with the possibility of extention on the motion made
Oct 02 22:09:53 <Rush>        I agree, it sounds like you're wanting a physical location convention
Oct 02 22:10:16 <Bluestreak>        Wasn;t the last one online?
Oct 02 22:10:35 <Rush>        They're all online, that's how this party is
Oct 02 22:10:43 <kusanagi>        Bluestreak: it was supposed to be online.
Oct 02 22:10:52 <FrancisKlein>        point of order: motion on the table
Oct 02 22:10:58 <Bluestreak>        Can't afford in person
Oct 02 22:11:02 <Rush>        The easiest way to envision the Pirate Party in the US is imagine a political party being run out of someone's closet, because that's us
Oct 02 22:11:03 <Bluestreak>        sry
Oct 02 22:11:40 <Bluestreak>        Point of infomation: Can I suggest video chat?
Oct 02 22:11:41 <FrancisKlein>        Point of Order: Motion on the Table: "I move the body enter into a maximum 3 minute debate with the possibility of extention on the motion made" we are not currently in a discussion
Oct 02 22:11:47 <kusanagi>        FrancisKlein: that's fine
Oct 02 22:11:47 <Bosun>        may I speak
Oct 02 22:12:06 <Bluestreak>        Point of info 3 minutes aint a lot of time in PNC
Oct 02 22:13:31 <FrancisKlein>        assuming we are currently in a discussion with indefinite length, I intend this convention to be physical
Oct 02 22:13:49 <FrancisKlein>        although I wish the details to be specified by the pnc
Oct 02 22:14:06 <kusanagi>        There's going to be extreme difficulty having a physical convention.
Oct 02 22:14:18 <FrancisKlein>        thus the working of the motion - i would entertain an amendment that says the place must also be specified by the pnc
Oct 02 22:14:40 <kusanagi>        that's more of the committee's decision.
Oct 02 22:14:40 <K`Tetch>        for a group as spread out as us, as low membered as us, and a poorly funded as us, that's a complete no-go (I say that as someone who's organised many events over the last 15 years)
Oct 02 22:15:25 <FrancisKlein>        Ktetch, I think it is possible, but not in the very near future
Oct 02 22:15:35 <Rush>        How do you think it's possible?
Oct 02 22:15:37 <FrancisKlein>        the point would be to start working towards that now
Oct 02 22:15:37 <Bluestreak>        No I have to agree with Andrew
Oct 02 22:15:58 <Bluestreak>        Unless y'all want to come to Boston ;-)
Oct 02 22:16:06 <FrancisKlein>        center of mass is in Washington
Oct 02 22:16:21 <Bluestreak>        I was joking
Oct 02 22:16:23 <K`Tetch>        thats a long drive/amtrak ride from ATL
Oct 02 22:16:34 <kusanagi>        even longer from NY.
Oct 02 22:16:38 <FrancisKlein>        And even longer from WI
Oct 02 22:16:41 <FrancisKlein>        but I would go
Oct 02 22:16:46 <Bluestreak>        May I offer video chat as an alternative?
Oct 02 22:16:58 <FrancisKlein>        This is not in the near future,
Oct 02 22:16:59 <Bosun>        I have taken the train from DC to Atlanta … it is not bad.
Oct 02 22:17:01 <kusanagi>        I think we're getting a bit distracted.
Oct 02 22:17:06 <Bluestreak>        Agrees
Oct 02 22:17:15 <K`Tetch>        We do have a big event in Atalnta every labor day weekend, with appropriate speakers that ppga piggybacks on each year
Oct 02 22:17:29 <Bluestreak>        What is that pls?
Oct 02 22:17:32 <FrancisKlein>        and the committee I believe would be set up to work towards this - not that we have to have only physical conventions, but that we build up to it
Oct 02 22:18:00 <FrancisKlein>        as in, bluestreak, we have video chat building up to it
Oct 02 22:18:01 <K`Tetch>        Dragoncon
Oct 02 22:18:10 <FrancisKlein>        I'm thinking on the scale of many years
Oct 02 22:18:20 <Bluestreak>        Yes FrancisKlein
Oct 02 22:18:26 <Bluestreak>        that is what I meant
Oct 02 22:18:28 <kusanagi>        FrancisKlein: right now, we're focused on the next election
Oct 02 22:18:33 <Bluestreak>        IDK know that about Dragoncon
Oct 02 22:18:38 <kusanagi>        which is Nov. 13th, iirc
Oct 02 22:18:39 <FrancisKlein>        that is what I believe the committee should be doing
Oct 02 22:18:40 <K`Tetch>        then you plan at the time, for that specifically FrancisKlein, you can't plan a physical event now, for 'some time int he future' because it's all about specifics
Oct 02 22:18:44 <Bluestreak>        Makes me want to try harder to get my ass down there
Oct 02 22:18:58 <K`Tetch>        Bluestreak -
Oct 02 22:19:13 <Bluestreak>        Of course.
Oct 02 22:19:25 <Bluestreak>        wow six weeks
Oct 02 22:20:07 <FrancisKlein>        Ok, I Envision this committee to be one which works with the pnc to set up video chat conventions and start to organize for the ultimate goal of a physical convention - by many years, I mean along the lines of 5-7 years
Oct 02 22:20:18 <FrancisKlein>        I may be unrealistic
Oct 02 22:20:30 <FrancisKlein>        but if we ever want a physical convention in this party, ever
Oct 02 22:20:40 <FrancisKlein>        then we should start working towards it NOW
Oct 02 22:20:49 <Bluestreak>        i move video chats for this purpose occur no more often than monthly
Oct 02 22:20:49 <FrancisKlein>        I know we are focused on the next election
Oct 02 22:21:03 <FrancisKlein>        that is why I would like to have a committee take care of it
Oct 02 22:21:16 <FrancisKlein>        point of order, there is already a motion on the table
Oct 02 22:21:24 <Bluestreak>        sry
Oct 02 22:21:33 <FrancisKlein>        its ok
Oct 02 22:21:33 <K`Tetch>        with physical events, 99% of planing is in the specific, not the general
Oct 02 22:21:44 <kusanagi>        Exactly.
Oct 02 22:21:51 <FrancisKlein>        yes, but I cannot specify all of it now. That is why the committee
Oct 02 22:22:25 <kusanagi>        Work toward what you need to know
Oct 02 22:22:27 <kusanagi>        now
Oct 02 22:22:32 <FrancisKlein>        exactly
Oct 02 22:22:45 <kusanagi>        Afterward, assuming the committee is still together, focus on better things
Oct 02 22:23:14 <FrancisKlein>        No. We need to start thinking about it now.
Oct 02 22:23:20 <FrancisKlein>        Not doing, talking
Oct 02 22:23:20 <kusanagi>        For the shirt term, if you don't mind clarifying your goals for this committee.
Oct 02 22:23:28 <FrancisKlein>        short term - 
Oct 02 22:23:33 <kusanagi>        short
Oct 02 22:23:34 <kusanagi>        sorry
Oct 02 22:23:57 <FrancisKlein>        publicize and organize video conventions for the USPP
Oct 02 22:24:13 <FrancisKlein>        establish connections for a potential future physical meeting
Oct 02 22:24:29 <FrancisKlein>        mainly the first point
Oct 02 22:24:48 <kusanagi>        any physical meeting is over a year away at this point.
Oct 02 22:24:50 <FrancisKlein>        print tshirts, make posters, put up info about video conventions
Oct 02 22:24:52 <FrancisKlein>        etc
Oct 02 22:24:59 <FrancisKlein>        I said, 5-7 years
Oct 02 22:25:32 <FrancisKlein>        I am not being rediculous, I just think starting to work on it now is better
Oct 02 22:25:38 <FrancisKlein>        because it will take a LOT of work
Oct 02 22:25:48 <FrancisKlein>        in the mean time, do video conventions
Oct 02 22:26:10 <Bluestreak>        2nd
Oct 02 22:26:15 <Bluestreak>        ?
Oct 02 22:26:20 <Rush>        I move to table this until FK has his shit together
Oct 02 22:26:22 <FrancisKlein>        second already mate
Oct 02 22:26:25 <FrancisKlein>        *made
Oct 02 22:26:31 <Bluestreak>        lol
Oct 02 22:26:40 <FrancisKlein>        Rush, I have my shit together
Oct 02 22:26:46 <FrancisKlein>        I am not doing this on my own
Oct 02 22:26:54 <FrancisKlein>        this is the establishment of a COMMITTEE
Oct 02 22:27:04 <FrancisKlein>        for the purpose of doing what I cannot
Oct 02 22:27:06 <K`Tetch>        Again FrancisKlein, from experience, physical events take a lot, yes, but only once you'ev already got the specifics. there's NOTHING general you can do to plan for an event until you have date + location sorted
Oct 02 22:27:24 <kusanagi>        I've asked for the short term goals, and not to offend, but it's undoable right now.
Oct 02 22:27:48 <FrancisKlein>        which is why the pnc will specify that at a later date and the focus of the committee would be to simply organize the video conventions for the most part
Oct 02 22:28:03 <FrancisKlein>        I specified the short term goals.
Oct 02 22:28:08 <FrancisKlein>        do you think they are undoable?
Oct 02 22:28:18 <FrancisKlein>        and when did ambition hurt an organization?
Oct 02 22:28:25 <kusanagi>        It killed CAPP.
Oct 02 22:28:35 <kusanagi>        They were overzealous and burned out.
Oct 02 22:28:53 <FrancisKlein>        ok, ambition and determination
Oct 02 22:29:03 <FrancisKlein>        this committee is not the start of CAPP again
Oct 02 22:29:12 <FrancisKlein>        this would be governedby the pnc
Oct 02 22:29:16 <FrancisKlein>        as is any committtee
Oct 02 22:29:56 <kusanagi>        And I point to the former convention committee.
Oct 02 22:30:11 <kusanagi>        How would this group handle the upcoming elections?
Oct 02 22:30:19 <FrancisKlein>        And I volunteer myself as chair
Oct 02 22:30:34 <FrancisKlein>        what do you mean?
Oct 02 22:30:35 <kusanagi>        I'd like an answer to that question please, point of information.
Oct 02 22:30:58 <kusanagi>        How would this committee handle the elections that are in approximately 6 weeks?
Oct 02 22:31:08 <Bluestreak>        This should be our focus
Oct 02 22:31:22 <K`Tetch>        the elections should be sooner than that, 6 weeks is when your term ends
Oct 02 22:31:24 <Bluestreak>        Order of operations
Oct 02 22:31:32 <FrancisKlein>        Excusing my lack of history with the pnc, how would that affect a committee
Oct 02 22:31:32 <K`Tetch>        we should be well done with the election by then
Oct 02 22:31:44 <kusanagi>        FrancisKlein: I'm asking how your committee would function.
Oct 02 22:31:58 <kusanagi>        K`Tetch: this is true, as well.
Oct 02 22:32:07 <kusanagi>        give some time for the new people to come in.
Oct 02 22:32:25 <K`Tetch>        change over all paperwork, etc
Oct 02 22:32:29 <kusanagi>        Exactly
Oct 02 22:32:57 <FrancisKlein>        Are new chairs of the committees elected?
Oct 02 22:33:02 <FrancisKlein>        or is it just the officers?
Oct 02 22:33:08 <kusanagi>        They could be either
Oct 02 22:33:14 <K`Tetch>        hence why I said 22:01:25 «+K`Tetch» correct, elections should be started end of this month
Oct 02 22:33:19 <kusanagi>        that fully depends on the committee itself
Oct 02 22:33:35 <Bluestreak>        Can't we just have elections at PNC?
Oct 02 22:33:35 <kusanagi>        K`Tetch: yeah, I got that now, sorry. 
Oct 02 22:33:42 <Bluestreak>        point of info
Oct 02 22:33:46 <kusanagi>        Bluestreak: last year was a disaster
Oct 02 22:33:55 <Bluestreak>        Oh kay
Oct 02 22:34:04 <kusanagi>        that culminated in the former chair leaving without giving any information at all to me
Oct 02 22:34:56 <kusanagi>        no turn over, no contacts, nothing
Oct 02 22:34:57 <Rush>        Wasn't I the chair before you?
Oct 02 22:35:03 <K`Tetch>        no, travis was
Oct 02 22:35:24 <FrancisKlein>        I move that my motion be postponed until after the PNC elections, at which time I will bring forward a document with a clear purpose and charter of the suggested committee.
Oct 02 22:35:29 <Bluestreak>        Oh THAT'S What they were talking about
Oct 02 22:35:34 <Rush>        If I recall, it was Ryan, Me, Brit, Me, Travis, You, right?
Oct 02 22:35:47 <K`Tetch>        yes
Oct 02 22:35:48 <Bluestreak>        We were talking about this at a MAPP inperson mtg last year
Oct 02 22:35:57 <kusanagi>        Order.
Oct 02 22:36:02 <Bluestreak>        Yes
Oct 02 22:36:11 <K`Tetch>        but you forgot" MEEEEEEEEEEEEE, chan6," at the start
Oct 02 22:36:32 <kusanagi>        FrancisKlein: would there be a chance you are able to have a small convention committee handle the upcoming elections/
Oct 02 22:37:17 <FrancisKlein>        yes, although I would need advice on how to do so, since I have not gone through elections before
Oct 02 22:37:19 <kusanagi>        and point of information: we have 20 minutes left.
Oct 02 22:37:27 <kusanagi>        FrancisKlein: that's fine
Oct 02 22:37:31 <Bluestreak>        POint of info... since I won't be running for anything I volunteer for said cmte
Oct 02 22:37:44 <kusanagi>        hold volunteering for PMs please
Oct 02 22:37:48 <Bluestreak>        k
Oct 02 22:38:15 <FrancisKlein>        should we wait to create said committee until later, then? or now?
Oct 02 22:38:44 <kusanagi>        That's up to you, but I'd advise to hold out a week, and come up with a plan to hold the elections, then focus on further options.
Oct 02 22:39:01 <FrancisKlein>        understood
Oct 02 22:39:09 <FrancisKlein>        then, I rescind my last motion
Oct 02 22:39:09 <kusanagi>        Anything further?
Oct 02 22:39:23 <FrancisKlein>        I move that my motion be postponed for one week, at which time I will bring forward a document with a clear purpose and charter of the suggested committee.
Oct 02 22:39:39 <Bluestreak>        2nd
Oct 02 22:39:44 <kusanagi>        All in favor?
Oct 02 22:39:47 <FrancisKlein>        aye
Oct 02 22:39:51 <Bluestreak>        aye
Oct 02 22:39:52 <K`Tetch>        aye
Oct 02 22:39:57 <Rush>        aye
Oct 02 22:40:25 <OyajiVyse>        aye
Oct 02 22:40:28 <Bluestreak>        afk have to help kid one sec
Oct 02 22:40:53 <kusanagi>        vote called, tally?
Oct 02 22:41:01 <OyajiVyse>        5 aye, 0 nay, 0 abstain
Oct 02 22:41:03 <OyajiVyse>        ayes have it 
Oct 02 22:41:08 <OyajiVyse>        motion passed
Oct 02 22:41:17 <kusanagi>        wonderful.
Oct 02 22:41:21 <kusanagi>        next:  Content Committee formation, focus, and scope. 
Oct 02 22:41:29 <kusanagi>        FrancisKlein: I believe this was yours as well?
Oct 02 22:41:36 <FrancisKlein>        Indeed it was
Oct 02 22:41:57 <Bluestreak>        bacxk
Oct 02 22:42:18 <kusanagi>        Do you have a proposal set up, or would you prefer to hold this off for next week as well?
Oct 02 22:42:22 <FrancisKlein>        I move to postpone this motion for a period of one week, at which time I will bring forward a document with a clear charter of the content committee
Oct 02 22:42:38 <K`Tetch>        2nd
Oct 02 22:42:53 <kusanagi>        All in favor?
Oct 02 22:42:57 <Bluestreak>        aye
Oct 02 22:42:58 <FrancisKlein>        point of information : I have a charter, but we don't have time
Oct 02 22:43:00 <FrancisKlein>        aye
Oct 02 22:43:03 <OyajiVyse>        aye
Oct 02 22:43:08 <K`Tetch>        aye
Oct 02 22:43:41 <Rush>        aye
Oct 02 22:44:32 <kusanagi>        vote called, tally?
Oct 02 22:44:51 <OyajiVyse>        5 aye, 0 nay, 0 abstain
Oct 02 22:44:56 <OyajiVyse>        ayes have it, Motion passed
Oct 02 22:45:43 <kusanagi>        wonderful
Oct 02 22:45:45 <kusanagi>        next
Oct 02 22:46:06 <kusanagi>        Change of meeting structure as per SAB email by A. Norton, K`Tetch 
Oct 02 22:46:25 <kusanagi>        I have it marked as a proposal, though that may be incorrect
Oct 02 22:46:58 <K`Tetch>        ok, my motion is pretty much as in the email monday. ALL proposals should be annoucned at least 48 hours (but 24 hours in exceptional circumstances) proposals should have sources, evidence, and information, so that informed research and decisions can be made
Oct 02 22:47:30 <K`Tetch>        and the time gap is to allow us to actually consult our parties and get feedback and opinion from them, because we'er supposed to be representing our parties here
Oct 02 22:47:52 <K`Tetch>        and our current process has us making emotive longwinded arguments with no facts and no way to get feedback from our parties
Oct 02 22:47:53 <Bluestreak>        point of info
Oct 02 22:48:05 <Bluestreak>        "sources"?
Oct 02 22:48:14 <K`Tetch>        links, evidence, data
Oct 02 22:48:23 <Bosun>        citations
Oct 02 22:48:25 <Bluestreak>        so "or"
Oct 02 22:48:28 <Bluestreak>        not "and"
Oct 02 22:48:57 <Bluestreak>        Yes?
Oct 02 22:49:09 <kusanagi>        and/or would be more appropriate in my logic
Oct 02 22:49:09 <K`Tetch>        I'd want information AND citations
Oct 02 22:49:32 <Bluestreak>        OK how *much* info?
Oct 02 22:49:37 <Bluestreak>        Sentence?
Oct 02 22:49:39 <K`Tetch>        as much is felt to be needed
Oct 02 22:49:43 <Bluestreak>        Paragraph?
Oct 02 22:49:59 <Bluestreak>        "Yo, peeps: THIS!" ?
Oct 02 22:50:16 <kusanagi>        Whatever it takes to accurately prove a point, I take it
Oct 02 22:50:28 <K`Tetch>        yes
Oct 02 22:50:53 <Bluestreak>        Can I move that these changes be probationary?
Oct 02 22:51:17 <Bluestreak>        Not a bad idea
Oct 02 22:51:23 <Bluestreak>        Just want to test the waters
Oct 02 22:51:33 <kusanagi>        We can do that
Oct 02 22:51:38 <K`Tetch>        ok
Oct 02 22:51:43 <Bluestreak>        cool
Oct 02 22:52:03 <kusanagi>        So, any proposals must be sent over to Dan or myself, since Caleb is still gone.
Oct 02 22:52:10 <kusanagi>        And we'll incorporate it
Oct 02 22:52:36 <kusanagi>        Would friday be a solid deadline?
Oct 02 22:52:42 <kusanagi>        not solid, good
Oct 02 22:52:53 <Bluestreak>        um 48 hours?
Oct 02 22:53:03 <Bluestreak>        w/b Mon?
Oct 02 22:53:07 <Rush>        9PM EST Saturday
Oct 02 22:53:10 <K`Tetch>        any proposals should be sent to the sab list
Oct 02 22:53:18 <FrancisKlein>        I propose an amendment at a later time to the bylaws, Article 6, section 1: the creation of subsection 4, worded as follows: The agenda items of the PNC meetings shall be proposed by the members of the PNC. Each proposed agenda item must be made public at least 48 hours in advance of the meeting and have sufficient supporting information included"
Oct 02 22:53:18 <Bluestreak>        Agreed
Oct 02 22:53:33 <Bluestreak>        Agreed SAB list for Proposals
Oct 02 22:53:38 <kusanagi>        K`Tetch: agreed
Oct 02 22:53:48 <kusanagi>        I'm thinking agenda, I'm sorry.
Oct 02 22:53:55 <FrancisKlein>        something along those lines?
Oct 02 22:54:31 <kusanagi>        that's pretty dead-on, i'd think
Oct 02 22:54:36 <kusanagi>        order: 5 minutes
Oct 02 22:54:56 <FrancisKlein>        I should somehow include the SAB list requirement, though
Oct 02 22:55:08 <FrancisKlein>        I think made public kinda covers it
Oct 02 22:55:11 <K`Tetch>        public covers that
Oct 02 22:55:14 <FrancisKlein>        ok
Oct 02 22:55:35 <FrancisKlein>        do you think sufficient supporting information is too vague?
Oct 02 22:55:44 *        Fatbag ( has joined #pnc
Oct 02 22:55:55 <kusanagi>        no
Oct 02 22:55:57 <kusanagi>        4 minutes
Oct 02 22:56:10 <K`Tetch>        move to vote
Oct 02 22:56:14 <kusanagi>        All in favor
Oct 02 22:56:18 <FrancisKlein>        AYE
Oct 02 22:56:23 <K`Tetch>        AYE
Oct 02 22:56:26 <Rush>        aye
Oct 02 22:56:37 <OyajiVyse>        aye
Oct 02 22:56:42 <kusanagi>        ping Bluestreak 
Oct 02 22:56:46 <Bluestreak>        aye
Oct 02 22:56:52 <Bluestreak>        sry sending an email
Oct 02 22:56:56 <Bluestreak>        Pirate bznz
Oct 02 22:56:58 <kusanagi>        vote called, tally?
Oct 02 22:57:04 <OyajiVyse>        5 aye, 0 nay, 0 abstain
Oct 02 22:57:09 <kusanagi>        wonderful
Oct 02 22:57:11 <OyajiVyse>        ayes have it, motion passed
Oct 02 22:57:15 <FrancisKlein>        :D
Oct 02 22:57:48 <kusanagi>        We're not going to have time now for the PR, so after the meeting, if you want to hang around, we'll do it. I don't know if it can be posted to the site offhand though
Oct 02 22:58:18 <FrancisKlein>        No - I think it would have to be voted on in some capacity - like the pnc directs so and so to make a PR
Oct 02 22:58:28 <Rush>        I have to be up early tomorrow, so I can't stick around
Oct 02 22:58:38 <kusanagi>        PR is expressly my responsibility, iirc
Oct 02 22:58:53 <FrancisKlein>        oh ok
Oct 02 22:59:05 <kusanagi>        Falls under spokesperson, iirc
Oct 02 22:59:35 <kusanagi>        Since we don't have a press/relations committee
Oct 02 22:59:53 <kusanagi>        With that, AOB
Oct 02 22:59:57 <kusanagi>        I have a few announcements
Oct 02 23:00:30 <kusanagi>        The meeting on October 16th is canceled, surgery was rescheduled to that date, and for obvious reasons I won't be able to make it
Oct 02 23:00:44 <Bluestreak>        Noted
Oct 02 23:00:46 <FrancisKlein>        ok
Oct 02 23:00:57 <kusanagi>        And since we're down the Vice-chair, we won't be able to hold a meeting that day
Oct 02 23:01:28 <kusanagi>        Since elections are coming up, state parties should start deciding on who is to be nominated.
Oct 02 23:01:40 <Rush>        It's 11:01, I'm out
Oct 02 23:01:45 <kusanagi>        I've heard Rush is really anxious for a nod
Oct 02 23:01:49 <kusanagi>        And that's all I have
Oct 02 23:01:52 <kusanagi>        Anyone else?
Oct 02 23:01:56 <kusanagi>        Rush: one sec
Oct 02 23:02:05 <Bluestreak>        Nope
Oct 02 23:02:08 <OyajiVyse>        no
Oct 02 23:02:22 <FrancisKlein>        move to adjourn
Oct 02 23:02:28 <OyajiVyse>        second
Oct 02 23:02:43 <Rush>        If drafted, I will not run; if nominated, I will not accept; if elected, I will not serve.
Oct 02 23:02:58 <Bluestreak>        meep
Oct 02 23:03:05 <kusanagi>        all in favor?
Oct 02 23:03:08 <FrancisKlein>        aye
Oct 02 23:03:08 <OyajiVyse>        aye
Oct 02 23:03:09 <Rush>        aye
Oct 02 23:03:09 <Bluestreak>        aye
Oct 02 23:04:55 <Rush>        um
Oct 02 23:04:57 <kusanagi>        vote called, tally?
Oct 02 23:05:03 <Rush>        4 aye
Oct 02 23:05:05 <OyajiVyse>        4 aye, 0 nay, 1 abstain
Oct 02 23:05:09 <Rush>        the ayes have it
Oct 02 23:05:10 <kusanagi>        Good night, next meeting is oct. 9th, 9pm eastern. see you all then.
Oct 02 23:05:12 <OyajiVyse>        ayes have it, motion passed
Oct 02 23:05:16 <kusanagi>        Good night, next meeting is oct. 9th, 9pm eastern. see you all then.
Oct 02 23:05:20 <Bluestreak>        Great mtg ppl
Oct 02 23:05:23 <kusanagi>        meeting closed at 11:05