PNC 8/1/12

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Agenda PNC MEETING

08/1/2012 21:00h EDT

IRC: irc.pirateirc.net

Room: #pnc

Wiki: http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/PNC_8/1/12

Attendees

Attending

• jarod GA
• Joseph T. Klein/megan cochran, Wisconsin
• Zacqary Adam Green/Lindsay-Anne Brunner, NY
• Erik Zoltan, Massachusetts
• Jeff Talada, WA
• Kyle DeVore, Oregon

unexcused

• FL
• CA

probation

• • OK, third missed meeting

At Large Members of the PNC

• Sacha, MI
• Itspara, MY
• Alex Kollar, PA
• Caleblangeslag, MN

Proceddings

• Meeting opened at: 9:05 pm EDT by Travis McCrea
• Meeting closed at: 11:09pm EDT by Travis McCrea
• Meeting chaired by 
• Secretary for this meeting is 
• Quorum is established: Members 6 out of 8 present
• Logging Enabled: Yes

Review of previous minutes

• http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/PNC_7/25/12

Reports

Short report of the board members

Massachusetts

• pushing our liquid feedback site forward
  • request for testers
  • making a how-to video and install instructions
• looking for a new treasurer
• Pirate lunch on August 8th
• Pirate picnic this weekend - the 4th or 5th
• will attend the Freedom Rally in September
• Mass has a ballot question for medical marijuana and MAPP has a pro-legalization policy
  • big opportunity to attract members

Washington

• no report

Oregon

• going to launch a FB Page so that way we have more exposure
  • currently only have a group

Georgia

• no report

Florida

• absent

New York

• no report

California

• absent

Wisconsin

• working on having a face to face meeting with other registered members besides those who started the web page
• looking to have local meeting in Riverwest Millwaukee for a presentation at a co-op

Short Report From Committees

IT Committee

• caleblangeslag is the guy to go to for wiki access
• need a legal entity to hold assets so we can get googleapps and DNS access from yawnbox
  • secretary will get yawnbox in contact with Travis
  • create ownership policy
    • maybe include http://www.teampass.net/about/

PNC Charter Committee

• motion to change the PNC Charter Committee into the PNC Bylaws Committee
  • move to append the words "with  a restricted mandate to come up with a barebones document and suggest a process for adding bylaws to it." to QuazarGuy's motion
    • 5 for, at-large (1) for
  • 5 for, at-large (.5) for

Agenda Items

Items unvotable due to lack of members who've ratified the constitution

• Proposed Amendment
• Asynchronous Meetings

AOB

Minnesota

• trying to contact stephenb tomorrow, as well as some of the folks in the Rochester area, to hopefully get started on the MNPP
• getting a website together before the next PNC meeting

Michigan

• website looks much better thanks to Deamon and he has been a great help in getting things started
• have a twitter, g+, facebook group and page and some info on each
• been talking to AGPPP and they are sending us some free goodies
• focusing on building membership right now and we're going to discuss the constitution/by laws/organization soon

• motion to adjourn
  • 2 for

• Next meeting: 8/7/12 at 9:00pm EDT
• Meeting closed: 11:09pm EDT

Logs

• <@teamcoltra> Okay thats enough people to call roll call, lets hear where ya'll are from
• <Bosun> Joseph T. Klein, Wisconsin
• <@kusanagi> Lindsay-Anne Brunner, NY.
• <Zacqary> Zacqary Adam Green, New Yawk

>>> sadyya has joined #pnc

• <mildbeard> Erik Zoltan, Massachusetts

>>> sadyya has left #pnc

• <jarod_> Jarod Georgia

>>> teamcoltra sets mode +v Zacqary >>> sadyya has joined #pnc >>> teamcoltra sets mode +v mildbeard >>> teamcoltra sets mode +v jarod_ >>> teamcoltra sets mode +v Bosun

• <@teamcoltra> As QuazarGuy doesn't seem to be here, does anyone want to step up to be the secretary?
• <Sacha> Amanda Johnson, Michigan
• <Sacha> I'll do it but will you help me? I only know copying and pasting version of doing the mins.
• <QuazarGuy> here
• <QuazarGuy> Jeff Talada, WA

>>> Rogue has joined #pnc

• <sadyya> megan cochran rep wi
• <sadyya> sorry i'm having computer issues i may get kicked out again...
• <@teamcoltra> Nevermind Sacha , but thanks for your volunteering

>>> teamcoltra sets mode +v QuazarGuy

• <Sacha> teamcoltra k
• <+QuazarGuy> link to pad?
• <@kusanagi> Sacha, that will do.
• <@teamcoltra> (Link: https://pnc.piratenpad.de/PNC-8-1-12)https://pnc.piratenpad.de/PNC-8-1-12
• <Sacha> kusanagi QuazarGuy got here so it's all good :3

>>> kusanagi has quit IRC: Read error: Connection reset by peer >>> kusi has joined #pnc >>> ChanServ sets mode +o kusi

• <@kusi> Minutes are notes, copy and paste is for logs
• <@teamcoltra> kusi we already have QuazarGuy here
• <@kusi> Oh
• <@kusi> Well
• <@kusi> Oops
• <@teamcoltra> We have 5 out of 8 members of the PNC, the meeting was started at 2105.
• <@teamcoltra> the agenda for tonights meeting is at (Link: https://pnc.piratenpad.de/PNC-8-1-12)https://pnc.piratenpad.de/PNC-8-1-12
• <@teamcoltra> If you guys can review (Link: http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/PNC_7/25/12)http://www.pirate-party.us/wiki/PNC_7/25/12
• <@teamcoltra> last weeks minutes
• <+mildbeard> looks fine.

>>> teamcoltra sets mode -v Bosun >>> teamcoltra sets mode +v sadyya

• <+QuazarGuy> looks good
• <@teamcoltra> Okay while the rest of you guys are reading the minutes of last week, lets have mildbeard tell us what Mass has been up to
• <+mildbeard> We are pushing our liquid feedback site forward. We have a request for testers, and we're making a howto video. Also install instructions.
• <+mildbeard> We are still looking for a new treasurer.
• <+mildbeard> We have a Pirate lunch on August 8th and we have a Pirate picnic this weekend - the 4th or 5th.
• <+mildbeard> We will attend the Freedom Rally in September. Mass has a ballot question for medical marijuana and MAPP has a pro-legalization policy. So it's a big opportunity to attract members.
• <+mildbeard> And we approved the PNC constitution YAAAY.
• <+mildbeard> That's it for Massachusetts.
• <@kusi> Yaaaaaay
• <+QuazarGuy> no report from WA, done
• <@teamcoltra> jarod_ anything from Georgia
• <+jarod_> no changes
• <@teamcoltra> New York / Zacqary
• <+Zacqary> Nothing new. I seem to have joined kusanagi in having medical struggles taking up my time, so we haven't been able to get much done.
• <@kusi> Apparently medical problems travel like cooties. Lolol
• <+mildbeard> hope you guys are OK.
• <@teamcoltra> And Wisconsin / sadyya
• <+sadyya> currently working on having a face to face meeting with other registered members besides those who started the web page, and looking to have local meeting in Riverwest Millwaukee for a presentation at a co-op
• <+sadyya> fail on the keyboard
• <+sadyya> thats it
• <@teamcoltra> matuck_ are you around?
• <+QuazarGuy> he needs to give someone access to add people to the wiki
• <@teamcoltra> He is getting on here in a second
• <@teamcoltra> lets hold for a second while he is here before we get into something else and talk about it for an hour
• <matuck_> here
• <@teamcoltra> Like magic
• <matuck_> caleb should have access to add peole
• <+QuazarGuy> cool I'll bitch at him then

>>> MrSquared has joined #pnc

• <matuck_> who needs access and i will add them
• <+QuazarGuy> Jokeefe, kusi, and a few others
• <MrSquared> ok, I'm here
• <MrSquared> sorry about my tradyness
• <@teamcoltra> matuck_ have you been able to talk with the guy managing google apps?
• <MrSquared> tardyness*
• <+sadyya> neither bosun nor I have access....
• <matuck_> no
• <+sadyya> do we have state pages the reps have access to or is it the whole thing...
• <Sacha> How about just QuazarGuy and Kusi
• <Sacha> then the PNC will have editing powers
• <@teamcoltra> Is there a way to do a "lost my password" type thing and just get access to Google Apps without him?
• <@teamcoltra> like update DNS to prove we own the domain
• CalebLangeslag upreads
• <CalebLangeslag> and if you want to bitch to me, you can bitch to me at caleb@techsanity.us
• <matuck_> ok those users now have access
• <+QuazarGuy> thanks caleblangeslag
• <+QuazarGuy> and matuck :)
• <+QuazarGuy> is it possible to enable iframes on the wiki
• <@kusi> Thanks.
• <@teamcoltra> [18:30:57] *<matuck_> ok those users now have access
• <@teamcoltra> [18:31:22] *<+QuazarGuy> thanks caleblangeslag
• <@teamcoltra> ^ buuurrnned
• <@teamcoltra> ;)
• <matuck_> can anyone get ahold of yawnbox?
• <+QuazarGuy> he's dead to me
• <+QuazarGuy> what do we need him for?
• <@teamcoltra> He has sole access to Google Apps
• <matuck_> well that sucks he has control of dns for pirate-party.us and the google apps account
• <+QuazarGuy> *facepalm*
• <matuck_> exactly
• <matuck_> i have emailed him several times but got no response
• <+QuazarGuy> neither have I
• <CalebLangeslag> There's a phone number listed in the WHOIS
• <+QuazarGuy> from what he's said in the past, he wants a corp he can transfer everything to
• <CalebLangeslag> are they an active participant of the Washington Pirate Party. or?
• <Sacha> Last I know, yawnbox refused to give access to anyone
• <+QuazarGuy> he is the chair of the WAPP PAC
• <Sacha> this was back when I talked to him in... March
• <+sadyya> jeesh
• <+QuazarGuy> but he's been pretty unreachable
• <CalebLangeslag> Woo, so we've got a crazy folk with the domain
• <matuck_> exactly this was the whole problem i had before with one person with access to the domain
• <CalebLangeslag> So yes, we need some accountability or system for domain ownership
• <@teamcoltra> This is a reason I wanted IT to be a department which is under the PNC, so an elected team of people always have access to everything... regardless of what happens to our volunteers
• <@kusi> Right.
• <+mildbeard> teamcoltra, we've achieved that except for this issue that preced the IT committee.
• <+sadyya> agreed
• <+mildbeard> preceded
• <+QuazarGuy> I'm sure if we have some thing ready for him to transfer everything to he will
• <@teamcoltra> mildbeard thats not accurate, because the IT Committee is it's own group who is not responsible to the PNC

>>> jarod has joined #pnc

• <@teamcoltra> We had a big vote on it
• <+mildbeard> Actually the PNC has the power to disband any committee that it created, including the IT committee.
• <+mildbeard> It's in the constitution.
• <+mildbeard> Disbanding however means that it's no longer a committee of the PNC, not that it has to break up.

>>> jarod_ has quit IRC: Quit: Web client closed

• <+QuazarGuy> we need a legal entity to hold assets
• <+sadyya> yes
• <+QuazarGuy> that was yawnbox's entire issue
• <@teamcoltra> I agree with that
• <@teamcoltra> buuut in the short term, I think that at least the secretary should have a record of passwords
• <@teamcoltra> and logins and stuff
• <@teamcoltra> be our information vault
• <Sacha> Why do we need a legal entity to hold assets, why can it not be transferred to a person?
• <+QuazarGuy> that's reasonable
• <+mildbeard> A person is in fact a legal entity.
• <+QuazarGuy> right, but does a person want to be sued into non-existence?
• <+mildbeard> uh, only Travis :)
• <@teamcoltra> :) I have never had a fear of that
• <+sadyya> thats good
• <@teamcoltra> The PNC should be incorporated, regardless.
• <+QuazarGuy> I just don't think that's acceptable to yawnbox, and we don't need you to be sued out of existence either
• <CalebLangeslag> Well, we need requirements of having multiple forms of contact with the person; email, home address, home phone, cellphone, etc
• <@teamcoltra> Until we can achieve the requred FEC requirements
• <+mildbeard> Well, FEC guidelines will require us to have a national office eventually. Incorporation should probably occur in the same state.
• <+sadyya> what about DC?
• <@teamcoltra> Well lets not get tangled up into that conversation right now
• <@teamcoltra> The idea here is what do we want to do to 1) Get control of our DNS and Google Apps again and 2) Prevent an issue like this happening in the future
• <@teamcoltra> I don't want to shut down our discussion of incorporating or whatnot, just want us to get to that conversation in due time.
• <+QuazarGuy> lets set up a committee to incorporate
• <@teamcoltra> Let's discuss that committee after, please
• <+QuazarGuy> I thought that was a direct response to item 1
• <@teamcoltra> From what I understand, no one even has CONTACT with Yawnbox

>>> Sacha has quit IRC: Ping timeout: 244 seconds

• <+QuazarGuy> I can hunt him down, but if we don't have something ready to go then it will be a waste of time
• <@teamcoltra> We don't know what we need to get ready

>>> Sacha has joined #pnc

• <+QuazarGuy> is there anything else from the IT committee?
• <@teamcoltra> Honestly, I don't really like the idea that he is going to dictate what we do with our organization.
• <+mildbeard> nor I
• <Sacha> QuazarGuy can you get yawnbox to contact teamcoltra?
• <+QuazarGuy> sure
• <Sacha> Teamcoltra Sound like a good way to end this for now to you?
• <@teamcoltra> QuazarGuy also give me your contact for him, I don't really care to wait for him to get around to contacting me
• <+QuazarGuy> sure
• <@teamcoltra> Thanks
• <@teamcoltra> Because honestly, what would incorporation do anyway? You cannot give data to a corporation
• <@teamcoltra> He cannot transfer the passwords to a corporation
• <@teamcoltra> he will need to give it to a person anyway
• <+QuazarGuy> obviously
• <Sacha> Very true, plus it would be weird to be a corporation and may hurt our image
• <@teamcoltra> Well everything is a corporation Sacha
• <@teamcoltra> EFF, DEFCON, etc The only major name that I know that isn't incorporated is Anonymous
• <Sacha> Teamcoltra Hmmm, nevermind then it is fine.
• <+sadyya> cause you cant anonymously incorporate......
• <@teamcoltra> lol and anonymous isn't a single organization
• <@teamcoltra> buut anyway, again, we are being sidetracked by incorporation.
• <@teamcoltra> Can we come up with a solution so this doesn't happen again?
• <@teamcoltra> Which is tied in directly to our IT committee
• <@kusi> The only thing that I can think of is that the pnc controls the passwords and such.
• <@kusi> I can't think of the right wording right npw
• <matuck_> multiple people with access
• <+QuazarGuy> the PNC should be the only one able to change passwords
• <@teamcoltra> I think the PNC leadership team should jointly hold access, but a central repository be the responsibility of the secretary
• <Sacha> I agree with that TeamColtra but the first step is seeing what you can get out of yawnbox
• <@teamcoltra> yes, but we can work on both. Kinda what was being discussed earlier, we don't want to have the information but not know what to do with it
• <+mildbeard> doesn't seem like we're going to solve this one tonight.
• <+sadyya> theres no way to solve in one night, but we can prep for a greater solution...
• <Bosun> ARIN and domain registrations are usally assigned to roles, not individuals.
• <CalebLangeslag> Although multiple access creates more risk
• <+QuazarGuy> that's why ownership has to be transferred to a corporation
• <+sadyya> allowing multiple access can help if someone goes rogue
• <+sadyya> clean up can be done
• <+QuazarGuy> if the secretary goes crazy, the corporation can contact Twitter and ask for passwords
• <@teamcoltra> Okay, then can we come up with solutions? make a solution by next weeks meeting? My suggestion (for you guys to consider) is that we setup an install of teampass (Link: http://www.teampass.net/about/)http://www.teampass.net/about/ and have the Secretary be in charge of maintaining it
• <+sadyya> but you are right multiple access is dangerous
• <CalebLangeslag> Unless if the password is changed
• <CalebLangeslag> then everyone else is locked out
• <@teamcoltra> (this is what PPI does)
• <+sadyya> aren't we all adults?
• <Bosun> At some level you need to trust someone.
• <+sadyya> cant we trust one another that the password wont be changed?
• <+QuazarGuy> sadyya there is no guarentee
• <@teamcoltra> lol you would like to hope sadyya but history (not within this group in particular) has shown me otherwise
• <+QuazarGuy> the first pres and sec ran off with the assets
• <+sadyya> eepp
• <+sadyya> thats outragous
• <@teamcoltra> Would a change to the role of the secretary require a bylaw or an amendment?
• <+mildbeard> It depends.
• <Sacha> That is not good
• <+QuazarGuy> specific things were going to be listed in the bylaws I thought
• <+mildbeard> It would only require an amendment if it's something specifically mentioned in the Constitution.
• <+mildbeard> Otherwise bylaws.
• <@teamcoltra> Sweet
• <Sacha> It is 10 o'clock, i'm pretty comfortable with leaving this to Travis and seeing what he can do with yawnbox for next week. I honestly do not think he'll just fork over the assets so we can talk about it more on SAB or in next week's meeting if someone has an idea.
• <@teamcoltra> I was just writing out the same thing sadyya
• <@teamcoltra> err
• <@teamcoltra> Sacha
• <@teamcoltra> Everyone come up with solutions you would like to see
• <@teamcoltra> and lets move on to the next item
• <@teamcoltra> fair?
• <+mildbeard> yep
• <Sacha> Teamcoltra Wonderful :3
• <MrSquared> sure
• <+sadyya> good
• <@teamcoltra> Okay so it looks like there is a motion to change our PNC committee into the bylaws committee
• <@teamcoltra> for the record whoever was wanting to make that motion, can you make it?
• <@teamcoltra> so it can be seconded
• <@teamcoltra> (and then we will discuss it)
• <+QuazarGuy> motion to change the PNC Charter Committee into the PNC Bylaws Committee
• <+sadyya> second
• <+mildbeard> second
• <MrSquared> can I be recognized?

>>> itspara has joined #pnc >>> teamcoltra sets mode +v MrSquared

• <@teamcoltra> QuazarGuy since this is your motion, you can speak first
• <+MrSquared> Kyle DeVore, Oregon
• <+QuazarGuy> the constitution is finished and approved and it's time to work on the bylaws
• <+QuazarGuy> done
• <@teamcoltra> It's my opinion that if we create a committee dedicated to finding things that need bylaws... they will find things that need bylaws
• <+mildbeard> uh, point of order here...
• <@teamcoltra> ?
• <+mildbeard> When we approved the constitution we said that a requirement of membership is for a state to have approved the constitution. Does that now apply in making motions, voting etc?
• <Sacha> Oh umm, can at larges be allowed to speak officially?
• <Sacha> after you respond to mildbeard*
• itspara arives late - itspara (nicholas de salvio) maryland
• <+mildbeard> I'm not saying it should, just thought it was an important question because we don't want our decisions to be called into doubt later.
• <@kusi> At this time, I believe only 2 states have approved it.
• <@teamcoltra> mildbeard I am going to consider your request while we discuss
• <+mildbeard> Right, and I hope that isn't some sort of obstacle.
• <+mildbeard> thanks
• <@kusi> Considering one isn't here, it would make things extremely difficult
• <@teamcoltra> err not your request but your point of order
• <+sadyya> after formal approval the body can radify all decisions
• <@teamcoltra> and I will decide what we will do before we vote
• <+QuazarGuy> are there any objections to the motion?
• <@teamcoltra> I disagree with it
• <@teamcoltra> but hold on
• <@teamcoltra> Does someone want to let at-larges speak on this?
• <+Zacqary> I do
• <+sadyya> on what?
• <+mildbeard> move to let at larges speak - or second.
• <+sadyya> motion on the floor?
• <@teamcoltra> Yes the motion on the floor
• <+sadyya> yes agree
• <@teamcoltra> okay that was pretty much everyone so no vote needed
• <@kusi> Lol
• <@teamcoltra> Go ahead Sacha (and itspara )
• <@kusi> And CalebLangeslag
• <@teamcoltra> fiiine
• <@teamcoltra> and him too
• <CalebLangeslag> I'm merely a wall-flower, ignore me
• <@kusi> Aww
• <CalebLangeslag> I have no input on this motion
• <Sacha> Caleblangeslag we drag everyone out to dance here *<3
• <@teamcoltra> my hands are shaking because I am dehydrated and haven't eaten sooo I am just going to grab a slice of bread and water while you guys discuss this.. i will brb
• <Sacha> What exactly is the motion?
• <itspara> What was this on again?
• <Sacha> Or are we discussing Mildbeard's point?
• <+QuazarGuy> motion to change the PNC Charter Committee into the PNC Bylaws Committee
• <+Zacqary> For the record, as the PNC Charter Committee chair, I'd be totally good with doing that.
• <+mildbeard> We're discussing the motion, teamcoltra will let us know about the point of order after he tanks up.
• <itspara> Sounds good to me. I don't have any comments.
• <+QuazarGuy> any issues other than Travis's?
• <+QuazarGuy> Sacha wanted to speak
• <+QuazarGuy> ?
• <Sacha> Just a sec
• <@kusi> At large was given a voice
• <Sacha> Ummmmm i'm not sure
• <@teamcoltra> Okay here is my problem with it:
• <Sacha> I'll let travis go as something tells me i'll agree with him :P
• <@teamcoltra> When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. When you are in a group, which is dedicated to finding things to turn into bylaws, everything looks like a problem that can be fixed with a bylaw (even things that haven't been a problem yet)
• <@teamcoltra> I am a big fan of letting the person spill coffee on themselves, before we have to put "caution your coffee may be hot"
• <+QuazarGuy> you want to leave room for policies
• <+QuazarGuy> ?
• <@kusi> Oh, that's a funny image in my mind.
• <+Zacqary> So where do we write down the rules for conducting meetings?
• <+mildbeard> You mean don't have a lot of bylaws until they are specifically needed.
• <@teamcoltra> Exactly, and when a bylaw is needed, I think our body itself can say "hey, lets make that a bylaw"
• <+mildbeard> I think that's a fair point.
• <+sadyya> soooo roberts rules are the default
• <+mildbeard> We need a shell document without a lot of content, where bylaws can be added.
• <+Zacqary> You know what should be a bylaw? How to make bylaws.
• <+Zacqary> Hey, let's make that a bylaw.
• <@kusi> Lmao
• <@teamcoltra> I do, however, think we need some sort of enforcement / ruling body. I would love to add an elected position of arbitrator
• <@teamcoltra> But that's out of order, sorry
• <+Zacqary> Doesn't the Captain do that?
• <+QuazarGuy> I thought bylaws were mentioned in the constitution
• <@kusi> No, not here Zac
• <+mildbeard> The PNC can give the captain any kind of authority or responsibility it wants, as long as it doesn't contradict the constitution. Even then we could amend.
• <+sadyya> can we speak to the question on the floor
• <@teamcoltra> Let's keep on the motion Zacqary sorry I pulled us off topic... the topic is "we should turn the PNC committee into a bylaw committee" which also implies the creation of a bylaw committee

>>> Sacha has quit IRC: Ping timeout: 244 seconds

• <+mildbeard> I would say we should have a committee but make it a restricted mandate to come up with a barebones document and suggest a process for adding bylaws to it.
• <+QuazarGuy> well the charter committee is no longer necesary
• <+QuazarGuy> that's reasonable
• <+sadyya> cant be added as friendly amendment
• <+sadyya> can IT*
• <+sadyya> sorry forgive the typos..
• <+sadyya> thank you
• <@teamcoltra> no, that would be changing the original motion, we would need an amend motion
• <+sadyya> ok
• <+QuazarGuy> how about I rescind mine and mildbeard posts his
• <@teamcoltra> You can't
• <+QuazarGuy> lol fine
• <@teamcoltra> because it's been seconded, it's no longer your motion to control.
• <@teamcoltra> Sorry, not trying to be a jerk.

>>> sacha has joined #pnc

• <@teamcoltra> ALso it's nice because we will get to discuss the merits of the amendment
• <@teamcoltra> then pass the amendment or not, then vote on the whole thing. So it's better
• <+mildbeard> I move to append the words "with a restricted mandate to come up with a barebones document and suggest a process for adding bylaws to it. " to QuazarGuy's motion.

>>> Brady has joined #pnc

• <+QuazarGuy> second
• <@teamcoltra> Okay so we are now discussing the merits of adding this to QuazarGuy's motion to change the PNC committee into the Bylaw committee
• <+Zacqary> I'm cool with it.
• <@teamcoltra> Does anyone feel that this amendment wouldn't work?
• <sacha> what is 'a restricted mandate'
• <@teamcoltra> mildbeard would this body be working on things like enforcement of bylaws, and things like that?
• <+mildbeard> A restricted mandate means we'd only do that one thing and come back with an answer to that, not a lot of other stuff.
• <@teamcoltra> i.e. your motion is suggesting a structural committee for bylaws, and not a comitttee that actually creates bylaws
• <itspara> Makes sense that it would just manage all/most of the bylaw related tasks
• <+mildbeard> Well......
• <itspara> Such as enforcement...
• <sacha> I don't think an entire committee should manage the by laws, one person will do it
• <@teamcoltra> itspara that's why I am asking
• <itspara> Feels like too much power to me
• <@teamcoltra> because i feel that an enforcing body must be elected
• <sacha> Teamcoltra If i'm reading this the right way it says "barebones" so it will make a process to add new ones and add barebones bylaws in
• <@kusi> I agree with teamcoltra
• <itspara> Yeah, I don't have an answer
• <+mildbeard> The goal is to come back with a barebones bylaws document and present it to the PNC for approval. At that time the committee's job is done and the PNC can determine whether it should continue in some new capacity.
• <+mildbeard> ANd the goal of the amendment is to address teamcoltra's objection which I can call...
• <+mildbeard> bylawrrhea...
• <@teamcoltra> :D
• <@teamcoltra> I don't think I have a problem with it, I just wanted to confirm your intent ... that way when the body comes back next week, I can say "I don't think that was the intent of hte motion" and you guys don't jump me
• <@kusi> lol mildbeard
• <+QuazarGuy> can we vote then?
• <+sadyya> call the vote
• <@teamcoltra> So it will be like the amendments to the US constitution - the first 10 were already done, and set the structure for the rest
• <+QuazarGuy> which brings us back to the point of order

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• <+sadyya> the chair will have to rule you can't debate points of order

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• <@teamcoltra> Okay -- so I have a solution, but it's kinda... unorthadox and hope you guys let me get away with it in "pirate spirit"

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• <+Zacqary> Yarr?
• <@kusi> Let's hear it
• <@teamcoltra> I will let the votes on this topic go forth, because it is a structural document for the PNC which was something we had already discussed when creating the new PNC
• <@teamcoltra> BUT
• <@teamcoltra> Topics that are more general, or new things that hadn't been raised before, I will have to only let states who ratified the constituion vote
• <+QuazarGuy> will everyone else count as at-large?
• <@teamcoltra> Yes.
• <+QuazarGuy> ok let's vote
• <@teamcoltra> Wait, is there an objection to this?
• <@kusi> Yes
• <@teamcoltra> actually
• <@teamcoltra> you can't raise an objection
• <@kusi> Only one state present has ratified.

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• <@teamcoltra> sorry :\
• <@kusi> :|
• <akollar> teamcoltra: Sorry about my lateness.
• <+mildbeard> so teamcoltra does that apply to this vote?
• <@teamcoltra> lol but you did anyway... it would be Zacqary who was the objector
• <akollar> I was working on something Q.Q
• <akollar> Still am Q.Q
• <+Zacqary> Wait what did I object to?
• <@teamcoltra> nothing
• <@teamcoltra> I was saying that kusi doesn't have a voice in this meeting for things like objections, motions, or things
• <@teamcoltra> because she is not representing NY, you are
• <@kusi> As First Mate, I have a voice.
• <@teamcoltra> but not for motions and stuff, just as I don't have a voice for motions nad objections.
• <+mildbeard> ANd she should be allowed to make her point, even if it's not a formal objection.
• <@teamcoltra> That is fair mildbeard
• <@teamcoltra> But anyway, this vote will allow all members who were previously full members
• <@teamcoltra> to vote
• <+mildbeard> ah ok good
• <@teamcoltra> along with all votes relating the PNC committee
• <@kusi> Oh, ok, that's fine then.
• <@teamcoltra> because it was established by the old members
• <@teamcoltra> and the Bylaws were discussed before
• <@teamcoltra> but other things will only allow ratified states
• <@teamcoltra> as full votes

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• akollar takes a seat at the bar :D

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• <@teamcoltra> If only one state (i thought we had two) has ratified, then we can't hold votes
• <SAcha> I think that we should give states a grace period of a few weeks
• <SAcha> Some may not have met yet and I feel it is unfair to require immediate ratification
• <+QuazarGuy> lol, as the sole active member of WA, I hereby ratify the PNC Constitution
• <@kusi> There is a time frame of 6 -months-
• <+mildbeard> That's all reasonable. The only issue is that the language of the constitution puts us in limbo, in the meantime.
• <+Zacqary> Hey um kusi should we ratify it?
• <@kusi> No.
• <@kusi> Our vote begins tomorrow.
• <SAcha> Mildbeard What language specifically?
• <+Zacqary> All right. Well. I want to do this motion thingy.
• <@kusi> So do it. Lol
• <@teamcoltra> mildbeard - it will really be on a case by case basis. My problem is that if there are real issues that arise in the text of the PNC charter, that prevent old states from ratifying it... then they don't have a vote to fix it
• <@teamcoltra> So things that had to deal with the old PNC, I will let the old PNC vote on
• <+Zacqary> Speaking of voting on things.
• <+mildbeard> SAcha, It says that a requirement of membership is that you have to have ratified the Constitution.
• <+Zacqary> Can we do that
• <+Zacqary> ?
• <@teamcoltra> I am aware that you guys want to vote, but its important that my position is clear on this
• <+sadyya> can we vote on the motion on the floor
• <SAcha> Does the constitution apply yet? Or are we still under the old PNC committee
• <@teamcoltra> so I want ot make sure we all get it... if we all understand, then we can
• <SAcha> Did we vote to have it go into effect immediately, or does it go into effect after we elect the new PNC
• <+QuazarGuy> I get it
• <itspara> It applied immediately I think
• <SAcha> as this one is just temporary?
• <+mildbeard> That's actually an interesting question.
• <@kusi> It should be applied when the new pnc is elected.
• <@teamcoltra> It took effect immediately
• <+QuazarGuy> the previous one was temporary, I think it applied immediately
• <SAcha> Is there a way that we can motion and vote on extending a grace period? Because I do not think it would be could to have only a few people having full votes....
• <@teamcoltra> We passed it, I even said in the vote that it would take effect immediately
• <@teamcoltra> there were no objections to that point
• <itspara> Ok
• <@teamcoltra> But lets vote on this real fast unless there is another point of order / clearification?
• <+mildbeard> Let's vote on the issue before us, then I would like to make a motion regarding how we interpret this clause of the constitution.
• <@teamcoltra> let me scroll WAAAY up and grab the text
• <+MrSquared> *click*click*click*
• <@teamcoltra> The motion on the floor is to amend "Changing the PNC Committee into the Bylaws Committee" with the additional text of "with a restricted mandate to come up with a barebones document and suggest a process for adding bylaws to it. "
• <@teamcoltra> all in favour say aye
• <@teamcoltra> against say nay
• <+sadyya> aye
• <+Zacqary> Ayeeeeeeeeeeeee
• <+QuazarGuy> aye
• <+mildbeard> aye
• <+MrSquared> aye
• <akollar> Aye
• <@teamcoltra> akollar what state are you from?
• <@teamcoltra> and your name
• <CalebLangeslag> aye
• <akollar> PA Alex Kollar I'm filling in for Passstab
• <itspara> Aye
• <itspara> Not sure if I can vote on this one though
• <@teamcoltra> Okay called the vote
• <@teamcoltra> QuazarGuy
• <+QuazarGuy> 5 for, at-large for

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• <@teamcoltra> Okay so now the motion on the table is Changing the PNC Committee into the Bylaws Committee with a restricted mandate to come up with a barebones document and suggest a process for adding bylaws to it.
• <@teamcoltra> Do we want to discuss it more
• <@teamcoltra> or vote on it
• <+mildbeard> vote
• <Sacha_> Well, I lost contact so i'm not sure if my question was answered
• <Sacha_> What is the point of barebones? Will it not lead to the problem that Teamcoltra first identified?
• <@teamcoltra> Sacha_ your question is out of order
• <Sacha_> teamcoltra okay -_- then ignore it
• <+mildbeard> Sacha_ I am going to make a motion about it after this.
• <@teamcoltra> so we will address it later
• <+sadyya> call the vote
• <@teamcoltra> Okay motion on the table: Changing the PNC Committee into the Bylaws Committee with a restricted mandate to come up with a barebones document and suggest a process for adding bylaws to it.
• <@teamcoltra> All for it say aye
• <@teamcoltra> against say nay
• <+sadyya> aye
• <+QuazarGuy> aye
• <+Zacqary> Omfg aye for the love of god
• <+mildbeard> aye
• <Sacha_> abstain, I have a question that was never answered so abastain

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• <+MrSquared> aye

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• <itspara> Aye
• <@teamcoltra> vote called
• <+QuazarGuy> 5 for, at-large for
• <@teamcoltra> Okay the PNC committee is now the Bylaw committee
• <@kusanagi> Hooray
• <+sadyya> neh hazzah
• <@teamcoltra> Okay I am going to close the floor to further motions due to our in ability to vote on them
• <@teamcoltra> err further agenda items
• <+QuazarGuy> PA wanted to make a report last week
• <@teamcoltra> yep
• <+QuazarGuy> do they still want to
• <@teamcoltra> which is what I was just writing out
• <+QuazarGuy> how about we do at-large reports
• <@teamcoltra> :) itspara / Sacha_ / CalebLangeslag / akollar
• <@teamcoltra> do you guys have anything for your states you would like to report?
• <@teamcoltra> (or any other atlarges that I missed)

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• <@teamcoltra> QuazarGuy it goes in AOB

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• <+MrSquared> ORPP iis going to launch a FB Page so that way we have more exposure
• <CalebLangeslag> Well, in general, I'd like to start working on the Minnesota Pirate Party, I'll be trying to contact stephenb tomorrow, as well as some of the folks in the Rochester area, to hopefully get started on the MNPP.
• <+MrSquared> we currently only have a group
• <akollar> I cant really say since PA is not an full fledged Pirate State yet... So that would be a negative from me.
• <CalebLangeslag> I'm putting forth a goal of getting a website together before the next PNC meeting

>>> #pnc You're not a channel operator >>> #pnc You're not a channel operator

• <itspara> Caleblangeslag: I may be able to assist with that if needed.
• <Bosun> If Wisconsin can help in any way, please contact bosun@pp-wisconsin.net
• <Sach> My turn?
• <CalebLangeslag> Well, I have the technical background to achieve it, but nonetheless, it's always useful to have assistance or someone to conceptualize it with
• <@teamcoltra> Sach go ahead
• <CalebLangeslag> So I will take you up on that offer, hopefully; itspara
• <@teamcoltra> Yeah it kinda turned into a free for all before I got to have control
• <CalebLangeslag> Sorry, go ahead Sach
• <@teamcoltra> (thats not your guys' fault, it's mine for not being more clear)
• <Sach> teamcoltra thanks
• <Sach> Michigan has actually been doing things \o/
• <Sach> Our website looks much better thanks to Deamon and he has been a great help in getting things started
• <Sach> We have a twitter, g+, facebook group and page and some info on each
• <Sach> A few likes, around 10 and I know of at least 3 people interested
• <Sach> We've also been talking to AGPPP and they are sending us some free goodies
• <Sach> We're focusing on building membership right now and we're going to discuss the constitution/by laws/organization soon and keep working on our websites
• <Sach> Did I forget anything deamon?
• <Deamon> Not that I can think of
• <Sach> Sweet, dats all for Mi then
• <@teamcoltra> anyone else have more to add for their state?
• <itspara> Nothing going on in MD...
• <@teamcoltra> Well I just want to add that I will be in an article in Octobers edition of playboy
• <@kusanagi> ....
• <+mildbeard> dude
• <@teamcoltra> :P Which I guess I will be obligated to go buy
• <@kusanagi> No one reads the articles, lolol
• <Deamon> Totally buying it for your centerfold
• <+sadyya> hahaha
• <@kusanagi> Oh god, the image
• <+Zacqary> Oh god, the image. Oh god. Oh god yes.
• <itspara> Why?
• <@teamcoltra> Pirate Party
• <+sadyya> O.o is it a pirate spread?
• <+mildbeard> Playboy must have changed a lot since I saw it last...
• <itspara> They are seriously doing an article?
• <@teamcoltra> I also had my question included in todays episode of "The Stream" on Al Jazeera I believe
• <itspara> :o
• <@kusanagi> Ooh
• <CalebLangeslag> "A dirty, dirty pirate with scurrrvy"
• <+Zacqary> It probably helped that you'd been on it before.
• <@teamcoltra> I can't download/stream stuff due to bandwidth limitations soooo I don't know I didn't see it
• <@teamcoltra> but they asked me to record a video, and I had to record audio and send it in
• <Sach> Al Jazeera * _ *
• <itspara> Cool pies
• <@teamcoltra> anyone who wants to check it out and see, Al Jazeera is always an awesome watch anyway
• <@teamcoltra> anyway, was there anything else?
• <+Zacqary> The amendment thingy?
• <+Zacqary> Oh wait that's not on the agenda anymore.
• <+mildbeard> We can't vote on an amendment but we should be able to mention it.
• <+QuazarGuy> I moved it to agenda item
• <+MrSquared> i gotta go guys
• <+MrSquared> sorry
• <+QuazarGuy> it should've been in agenda items

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• <+Zacqary> But we can't vote on them right now.
• <@teamcoltra> Zacqary would you like to bring it up?
• <+Zacqary> Kind of. But this meeting's been long. So kind of not.
• <+Zacqary> We can probably save it.
• <@teamcoltra> well then, would someone like to motion to adjourn?
• <+Zacqary> Oooooh me!
• <+Zacqary> Motion to adjourn!
• <+Zacqary> =D
• <@teamcoltra> all in favour?
• <+QuazarGuy> it didn't exist before the new PNC
• <+QuazarGuy> :p
• <+sadyya> aye
• <@teamcoltra> and only QuazarGuy and mildbeard's vote counts
• <@teamcoltra> ;)
• <+QuazarGuy> aye
• <+mildbeard> aye
• <@teamcoltra> called it
• <+QuazarGuy> 2 for