PNC 5/8/13

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::PNC Meeting Agenda::

--- 05/08/2013 21:00h EDT ---
Room: #pnc


  • Review of minutes from 2013-4-10
  • Current minutes put forth for approval


1.1 - Members of the PNC

  • Attending
    • Andrew Norton - GA
    • Lucia Fiero - MA
    • Bradley Hall - FL
    • Daniel Gorski - NY
  • Excused
  • Unexcused
  • Probation

1.2 - At Large Members of the PNC

1.3 - Officers of the PNC

  • Caleb Langeslag - First Mate
  • Daniel Gorski - Quartermaster

1.4 - Other Attendees

  • Stephen Smith - FL
  • Nick - MD
  • Kyle - OH


  • Meeting called to order at: 9:45 pm EDT
  • Meeting chaired by Caleb Langeslag
  • Secretary for this meeting is Daniel Gorski
  • Quorum is established: 4 out of 8 Members present
  • Logging Enabled: Yes

3 - Review of previous minutes


4.1 - Short Report From Committees

IT Committee

5 - Agenda Items


- AOB -

  • Next meeting: TBA at 9:00PM EDT
  • Meeting closed: 10:27PM EDT by loss of quorum

- Logs of the Meeting -

May 08 21:45:22 <CalebLangeslag>        I call the meeting to order, at 9:45 Eastern time
May 08 21:46:41 <CalebLangeslag>        I'll have a pause for everyone to review the minutes of the previous meeting, located at:
May 08 21:47:23 <Rush>        How am I listed as an "other"?
May 08 21:49:16 <CalebLangeslag>        I have no idea. I'll remove that if OyajiVyse has no objections
May 08 21:49:45 <OyajiVyse>        none, my apologies for the mix up, I thought narr was acting as rep that night
May 08 21:49:57 <narr>        That happened because Rush wasn't here.
May 08 21:50:06 <Zarlisk>        May I be placed on rollcall? As a member from OHPP?
May 08 21:50:10 <narr>        In hindsight, I should've just requested some more time.
May 08 21:51:03 <K`Tetch_>        and tonights agenda?
May 08 21:51:15 <CalebLangeslag>        Zarlisk, have you been appointed by OHPP to be a delegate to the PNC?
May 08 21:51:35 <Zarlisk>        No. 
May 08 21:51:35 <CalebLangeslag>        The proposed agenda is:
May 08 21:52:04 <K`Tetch_>        proposed? should have been set already
May 08 21:52:42 <CalebLangeslag>        It has to be adopted by the body first, which is the next point after reading the past minutes
May 08 21:53:20 <K`Tetch_>        so, item 4/5 on the agenda is adopting the agenda? :-)
May 08 21:54:04 <CalebLangeslag>        Anyone have a suggestion of how the previous minutes should be corrected in regards of Rush being listed twice? Mark Rush or narrenburg as "unseated", or?
May 08 21:56:14 <CalebLangeslag>        Or it was just removed from "Other" I guess.
May 08 21:56:16 <OyajiVyse>        if Rush was acting as rep that night, then move narrenburg to other
May 08 21:56:24 <OyajiVyse>        right?
May 08 21:56:34 <CalebLangeslag>        I suppose that would be suitable
May 08 21:56:51 <CalebLangeslag>        Are there any other errors with the minutes?
May 08 21:57:01 <itspara>        Zarlisk should be listed under others
May 08 21:57:05 <itspara>        I think
May 08 21:57:55 <OyajiVyse>        I agree
May 08 21:58:33 <OyajiVyse>        Zarlisk, could you state your name for the record?
May 08 21:58:53 <itspara>        Full name isn't really required for observers. Just saying
May 08 21:59:03 <Zarlisk>        Kyle 
May 08 21:59:13 <Zarlisk>        Kyle, OHPP Observer
May 08 21:59:18 <Zarlisk>        Right? ^
May 08 21:59:28 <itspara>        What works
May 08 21:59:31 <itspara>        *that
May 08 21:59:49 <itspara>        youll just be listed as ohio though
May 08 22:00:02 <Zarlisk>        Alright. 
May 08 22:02:27 *        passstab (~coplon@xx.pirate) has joined #pnc
May 08 22:02:40 <CalebLangeslag>        Considering there's no other objections to the minutes of the previous meeting, please review the proposed agenda:
May 08 22:03:16 <CalebLangeslag>        The only item on the agenda is "Policy". Are there any proposed modifications to tonight's agenda?
May 08 22:06:16 <Rush>        Policy?????
May 08 22:06:18 <CalebLangeslag>        K`Tetch_, Bluestreak, Rush, OyajiVyse: Do you have any amendments to the agenda?
May 08 22:06:20 <Rush>        That could be anything
May 08 22:06:20 <OyajiVyse>        what do we have to do to adopt the revisions? just put forth a vote?
May 08 22:06:34 <Bluestreak>        Nay
May 08 22:06:58 <K`Tetch_>        how about a resolution that this meeting has just been a waste of everyones time?
May 08 22:07:06 <itspara>        hold on
May 08 22:07:25 <CalebLangeslag>        Put forth a motion, it requires majority vote as per RONR (pg 373)
May 08 22:07:45 <itspara>        Perhaps we should add looking at K`Tetchs complaints about the pnc
May 08 22:07:51 <K`Tetch_>        "RONR"?
May 08 22:08:08 <CalebLangeslag>        K`Tetch_, then make a suggestion to make it worth people's time
May 08 22:08:21 <CalebLangeslag>        Robert's Rules of Order, Newly Revised (11th edition)
May 08 22:08:26 <Bluestreak>        Roberts Rules Man
May 08 22:08:28 <Rush>        I second Andrew's motion
May 08 22:08:58 <K`Tetch_>        yes CalebLangeslag, I know what that is. I'm also wondering why anyone here is bothering with that waste of time book, designed for serious in-person discussion
May 08 22:09:18 <Bluestreak>        Can we just vote on the proposed constitution?
May 08 22:09:49 <Zarlisk>        K'Tetch, i think they use RONR because it is a part of the bylaws. Correct?
May 08 22:10:14 <K`Tetch_>        nope
May 08 22:10:25 <K`Tetch_>        "The PNC shall use the most effective and most inclusive collaboration tools available to meet and vote on decisions."
May 08 22:10:38 <K`Tetch_>        RONR is the antithesis of that
May 08 22:11:07 <OyajiVyse>        what would be a better alternative?
May 08 22:11:32 <Zarlisk>        K'Tetch Article VIII of the Bylaws. 
May 08 22:11:40 <CalebLangeslag>        By definition, if you're talking of a resolution, then you assuredly have a document describing your motion in length
May 08 22:11:51 <K`Tetch_>        well, we could start by having some competent leadership here, who know how to draw up an agenda, how to do minutes and how to run a meeting
May 08 22:12:12 <Bluestreak>        Hypothesis: PNCs may have been chaotic in the past and the RONR were adopted to restore order?
May 08 22:12:46 <CalebLangeslag>        I barely know why the meeting was called, kusanagi formed the agenda, and had me cover for her last minute without much prior explanation
May 08 22:12:56 <K`Tetch_>        Zarlisk "and in which they are not inconsistent with these bylaws" - they are inconsistent
May 08 22:13:06 <K`Tetch_>        under VI.1.2
May 08 22:13:31 <K`Tetch_>        Bluestreak - nope, certain people salivate over those as a way to constrain debate and control the process
May 08 22:14:12 <OyajiVyse>        actually, I formed the agenda
May 08 22:14:14 <CalebLangeslag>        So again, if you have your written out resolution, then provide it, otherwise I find the motion invalid
May 08 22:14:20 <K`Tetch_>        and every time they've been introduced, they produce bureaucratic felgercarb, like this. 30 minutes since the calling and we've so far found the minutes to be crap, done a role-call and are now wondering about the agenda
May 08 22:14:31 <Zarlisk>        K'Tetch_ This is in your opinion? I am brand new to this, but you have not offered a single productive message so far. 
May 08 22:15:04 <K`Tetch_>        Zarlisk - this is fact, based on many years of doing this
May 08 22:16:09 <Zarlisk>        Then you should have the experience to offer productive solutions than to act like a "baboon". 
May 08 22:17:15 <CalebLangeslag>        So again, K`Tetch_, provide a useful agenda point that will actually create progress in the party (which you complain there's a lack thereof), instead of complaining with no constructive suggestions.
May 08 22:18:02 <CalebLangeslag>        So again I ask, are there any other motions regarding the amendment of the agenda?
May 08 22:18:15 <OyajiVyse>        we could start working on our platform
May 08 22:18:18 <K`Tetch_>        ok, agenda point - reports from the 'officers' listing their work since the last meeting
May 08 22:18:24 <OyajiVyse>        what we support, what we're against, etc.
May 08 22:18:30 <Rush>        I would like to motion an end of this meeting so that those behind the agenda can come up with a better item than simply "policy"
May 08 22:18:35 <K`Tetch_>        seconded rush
May 08 22:20:59 <CalebLangeslag>        There's unfinished business to the meeting, do you mean you'd like to table the unfinished business to the next meeting, and adjourn?
May 08 22:21:42 <K`Tetch_>        theres no unfinished busines, there's just a word 'policy'
May 08 22:21:45 <K`Tetch_>        thats not an agenda item
May 08 22:21:50 <CalebLangeslag>        (sorry if I'm overly semantic)
May 08 22:21:51 <Bluestreak>        Don't shoot me. I'm the piano player.
May 08 22:22:11 <Rush>        lol
May 08 22:22:25 <OyajiVyse>        I left it purposely vague so that we could discuss during the meeting
May 08 22:22:35 <Rush>        Yes, as Andrew said, just "policy" - that tells us nothing
May 08 22:22:53 <itspara>        Don't shoot me. Just because
May 08 22:23:01 <OyajiVyse>        it also gives us the opportunity to work on what we feel is needed at the moment
May 08 22:23:01 <Bluestreak>        Constitution looks good to me!
May 08 22:23:07 <Rush>        What kind of policy do we need? It's vague, like you said, we could argue for hours over something that vague
May 08 22:23:09 <K`Tetch_>        well, we're read the word policy, thus we can now move on, since we've now absorbed the word.
May 08 22:23:29 <itspara>        No, we need to continue to consider its potential meaning.
May 08 22:23:39 <itspara>         </sarcasm>
May 08 22:24:14 <OyajiVyse>        well I brought up the idea of our platform
May 08 22:24:38 <Zarlisk>        ^ I like.
May 08 22:25:35 <K`Tetch_>        *checks* sorry not ont he agenda (that YOU wrote) we read the word policy, so now we're on to the motion to adjourn
May 08 22:25:39 <itspara>        Now... what should we do about "platform"
May 08 22:26:23 <itspara>        K`Tetch_, why are you so eager to throw out the potential of actually recognizing applied meaning.
May 08 22:26:25 <itspara>        ?
May 08 22:26:29 <CalebLangeslag>        Well, I find the last motion invalid, unless if it can be rephrased regarding the unfinished business. Or, someone could propose an amendment to the agenda, and adopt it. Or just adopt the agenda, get to the agenda point, and motion to adjourn after short discussion
May 08 22:27:22 <K`Tetch_>        CalebLangeslag - you might find yourself to be important, frankly I've seen little work, little effort and zero communication from you. If you want to continue feeling important, do it on your own time in front of a mirror, I for one have better uses for my time
May 08 22:27:24 <Rush>        I motion to end the meeting so the people who wrote the word "policy" can finish their unfinished business of writing more words
May 08 22:27:28 <K`Tetch_>        Bye
May 08 22:27:36 <K`Tetch_>        Georgia OUT
May 08 22:27:40 *        K`Tetch_ (~no@international.pirate) has left #pnc