PNC 12/12/21

Summary

Reports

IT

• Bosun and James working on Crew.
• James updating blog software.

Platform

Working on Corporate Power Plank

Treasurer

FEC links:

• https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/registering-pac/
• https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/registering-pac/registering-nonconnected-committee/
• https://webforms.fec.gov/webforms/form1/index.htm

Minutes

Record of the meeting

 

[9:04pm] yari: okay, it looks like we have a quorum here, let's go ahead and begin.
[9:04pm] jokeefe: Agenda: https://wiki.uspirates.org/w/index.php?title=PNC_12/12/21
[9:04pm] papegaai: Title: PNC 12/12/21 - United States Pirate Party (at wiki.uspirates.org)
[9:04pm] yari: Calling this meeting of the PNC to order at 9:04 pm EST on 12/12/21
[9:04pm] yari: IDs please?
[9:04pm] Wodensday: Anthony Jay, INPP
[9:04pm] Sayyida: Megan Klein Wi
[9:04pm] jokeefe: James O’Keefe, Massachusetts, Secretary
[9:05pm] Joe left the chat room.
[9:05pm] Joe joined the chat room.
[9:05pm] Joe: Joseph Onoroski, Treasurer and MAPP representative
[9:05pm] pmchi: Mitchel Davilo, Chicagoland/ILPP, Swarmcare Manager
[9:05pm] yari: Rose Klein, CA, PNC Chair
[9:06pm] yari: Okay, let's go ahead and start with reports. IT committee first - jokeefe?
[9:07pm] Bosun_ joined the chat room.
[9:07pm] yari: Ahoy Bosun - please ID
[9:08pm] jokeefe: Bosun has made progress on crew and was able to get CiviCRM to email successfully. He is testing data migration.
[9:08pm] Bosun_: Joseph Klein USPP vice chair
[9:08pm] jokeefe: From there we will reinstall and reimport and hopefully all will be well.
[9:08pm] jokeefe: Blog software is up to date.
[9:09pm] jokeefe: Once crew is updated, I will setup the txt feature.
[9:09pm] yari: nice! that's quite exciting to hear!
[9:09pm] Bosun_: Screwing around with a pissy issue - but moving in the right direction
[9:09pm] yari: Thank you jokeefe and Bosun. Joe? What report do you have from the platform committee?
[9:11pm] Joe: We continue to have great discussions on how to implement our core values. We will probably revisit what we would do our first 100 days in power on the next meeting.
[9:12pm] Joe: Mainly we discussed limited corporate power while discussing our pro stances
[9:12pm] Bosun_ left the chat room. (Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
[9:12pm] Bosun_ joined the chat room.
[9:13pm] yari: Thank you Joe. excited to see the next set of things from the committee. Next up is the outreach committee. Wodensday?
[9:14pm] Wodensday: Care package continues to be extensive work, I'd like to think we are making progress though. It's just been a busy month for ll of us
[9:14pm] Wodensday: As far as Pirate media is concerned though, Pmchi and I have made a proof of concept for something. We can discuss that whenver, it's not super pressing, we just want some opinions
[9:15pm] Wodensday: This could even be post meeting
[9:15pm] yari: Thank you wodensday. If we have time for it, that could certainly happen in new business.
[9:16pm] yari: Joe anything to report on treasury?
[9:16pm] Joe: Yes
[9:16pm] Joe: I made it 50% through the fec signup
[9:17pm] Joe: There were some issues that I bounced off of Jokeefe. On his recommendation, I will reach out to them tomorrow.
[9:18pm] Joe: We should be good to accept donations in mass by the end of the week.
[9:19pm] yari: wonderful to hear! Thank you for taking on the work, and thank you to jokeefe for the guidance and help. I'm glad to hear that progress is happening.
[9:19pm] yari: pmchi - anything to report on swarmcare?
[9:20pm] Joe left the chat room. (connection closed)
[9:20pm] Joe joined the chat room.
[9:20pm] Joe left the chat room. (connection closed)
[9:20pm] Joe joined the chat room.
[9:20pm] pmchi: No new business stateside for Swarmcare. Besides the aforementioned proof of concept, I believe we have a Young Pirates proposal we can put forward for approval. If not today then next week
[9:21pm] yari: thank you pmchi. Bosun or jokeefe - anything to report?
[9:22pm] Joe: Can we call young pirates mini-maties?
[9:22pm] jokeefe: only baby pirates
[9:22pm] Sayyida: As much as that is hilarious, its a tad condescending
[9:23pm] jokeefe: I do not have anything else to report
[9:24pm] Bosun_: How do we stand on non citizens voting?
[9:24pm] Bosun_: Legal resident - non citizens.
[9:24pm] yari: Thank you Bosun, I think that's a perfect move into the thing I wanted to have us discuss for a bit - the move of the USPP to a different voting model.
[9:25pm] yari: PNC, I should say
[9:26pm] yari: I would suggest that we set a specific amount of time, say - 15 minutes - to discuss some more of the specifics of this potential move. That way we have time set aside for pmchi and wodesnday's proposal, since this is not something that will easily get finished.
[9:26pm] Bosun_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in_the_United_States
[9:26pm] papegaai: Title: Right of foreigners to vote in the United States - Wikipedia (at en.wikipedia.org)
[9:26pm] Wodensday: Sorry for my absence for a moment, with some shenanigans I am back and can probably stay for another 15
[9:26pm] Wodensday: Huh, am I still here?
[9:26pm] Wodensday: Ah, there I am
[9:27pm] Bosun_: I turns out many places have and do allow local election votes by legal residents - do they then qualify as pirate party members?
[9:28pm] Bosun_: For federal elections non citizens can not vote.
[9:29pm] yari: Personally, I think they should be treated as such - especially since they are given votes in some local elections. I think it benefits us to be as democratic as the most democratic process currently in existence
[9:29pm] Wodensday: Do we currently have something that specifically says only US citizens can join?
[9:29pm] Wodensday: If we do, seems a bit silly. Not sure why we wouldn't allow all forms of permanent residents to participate
[9:30pm] jokeefe: Cannot vote now. 100 years ago however.
[9:30pm] Bosun_: We need a legal resident clause to please the FEC.
[9:30pm] Wodensday: Ah
[9:30pm] Wodensday: Well, then our hands are tied no?
[9:30pm] Wodensday: If we can't debate it there is no debate
[9:31pm] Bosun_: You can be a legal resident and not be a citizen.
[9:31pm] jokeefe: The FEC limits who we can accept money from, not who can be a member
[9:32pm] jokeefe: Also, permanent residents can donate.
[9:32pm] Miles_aus joined the chat room.
[9:32pm] Wodensday: I'd prefer to do the most libertarian thing allowed for each question.
[9:33pm] Joe: We are pirates, not libs. Even if they make a good point.
[9:33pm] Bosun_: A membership fee is a donation.
[9:35pm] Wodensday: This seems to depend more on if we want to charge for membership directly then
[9:35pm] Wodensday: With the status of noncitizen residents as part of thr pro/con list
[9:37pm] Bosun_: It is a political sttatement - who you accept as members - we are not know nothings.
[9:37pm] yari: So I'm confused here as to what we are required to do per the FEC
[9:37pm] Bosun_: We cannot accept donations from forighn peoples unless they have residency.
[9:38pm] jokeefe: by FEC rules, only us citizens and permanent residents can donate to FEC political committees
[9:38pm] Joe: Makes sense. How do we insure that on the web form?
[9:39pm] yari: okay, that makes sense. So we can allow donations, and therefore membership with donation, from people who are permanent residents even if they aren't US citizens.
[9:39pm] Wodensday: I'm starting to become more confused on what the question is. If we have a membership fee, then we have to follow donation rules when deciding who gets to be a member. If we don't, we don't
[9:39pm] Bosun_: yes - so permanent residents can pay for membership, I am asking if. we want to grant them membership?
[9:39pm] jokeefe: We don’t currently have a membership fee
[9:39pm] Wodensday: Ohhh
[9:40pm] Wodensday: I believe having one was brought up
[9:40pm] Wodensday: Then yes, I think we should allow it if we can
[9:40pm] Wodensday: (Also, I have to go)
[9:40pm] Bosun_: I thought that was on the agenda.
[9:40pm] Wodensday left the chat room. (connection closed)
[9:41pm] Joe: I am of the mind that you give what you can. At this point a member's time is more valuable than a few dollars.
[9:42pm] yari: Now that we're all (hopefully?) on the same page... I'm honestly curious if there any objections to the concept of allowing membership by permanent resident non-citizens
[9:42pm] Sayyida: In kind donations are donations
[9:42pm] Sayyida: If they are from “non citizens”, they are foreign entities
[9:42pm] Sayyida: That territory and our last president didn’t care, which is why we should
[9:43pm] Bosun_: Therefor illegal under FEC rules.
[9:43pm] yari: We are all walking around eachother and it would really help me if you would type full sentences
[9:44pm] jokeefe: German Pirates grant membership to non-citizens
[9:44pm] Bosun_: Yes, but we are not Germans.
[9:44pm] Sayyida: I am reading that bosun is worrried about donations coming in because of teh way we define “citizen”
[9:44pm] Sayyida: And member
[9:45pm] yari: I was under the impression, based on our conversation just now, that permanent resident non-citizens are qualified for membership. Is that wrong? If so, please say that I am wrong and why.
[9:45pm] Sayyida: Bosun, I don’t understand what you are saying, please reword
[9:45pm] Joe: Correct Yari
[9:45pm] Joe: Or you are correct. 
[9:47pm] yari: Okay - hearing no corrections, I can only assume that my statement was correct.
[9:47pm] Bosun_: Residents - ie Green Card Holders - can donate to a campaign - can work on a campaign. I am saying it is a political statement (one that I would like us say) If. we allow legal forighn residents to be members.
[9:47pm] yari: lovely. that sounds like a motion.
[9:48pm] yari: can I get a second
[9:48pm] Joe: 2nd
[9:48pm] Bosun_: WI moves for me.
[9:48pm] jokeefe: The only members we currently have are state parties, yes?
[9:48pm] yari: properly moved and seconded. Is there any further debate? if not, we will move to voting in one minute.
[9:49pm] yari: jokeefe that is correct. Bosun, is this meant to be anticipatory of individual membership?
[9:49pm] yari: That would be a good clarification.
[9:49pm] jokeefe: I don’t understand how individual members fit in here
[9:50pm] Joe: Hmm, i thought members in this definition simply means that they can join states and participate in national activities
[9:51pm] jokeefe: Wouldn’t that then be up to state parties or are we defining who their members should be?
[9:51pm] Bosun_: OK, then state members fall also under the FEC  guidelines - but can it be our policy to embrace legal residents?
[9:52pm] jokeefe: The FEC rules say permanent residents can donate to PACs. We will be a PAC. thus they can donate to us.
[9:52pm] Joe: Since we are an international party I took that as a given.
[9:52pm] Bosun_: No, if a state taints the money and it ends up in our treasury, we are an accessory after the fact.
[9:53pm] Bosun_: We don't even affiliate with PPI.
[9:54pm] yari: I think Bosun's motion implied this is not just about donations, though - it's also about memberships. Even if it's technically allowed under FEC, making a statement about who we allow is a good political statement to make.
[9:54pm] Bosun_: Yes.
[9:54pm] Joe: Then perhaps some measure to disqualify or penalize a state if evidence is brought forth
[9:54pm] yari: The question of whether we want to impose this on state is an important one
[9:54pm] Bosun_: Especially given anti-immigrant movements.
[9:55pm] jokeefe: If we are just making a statement, then just say that “We welcome everyone who resides in the United States to join our party”
[9:55pm] yari: which could additionall be a motion, if you would like it to be, jokeefe.
[9:56pm] yari: *additionally
[9:56pm] yari: though the question of where it goes is one I would like resolved - where to make that statement. Part of the bylaws?
[9:56pm] Sayyida: I transfer Wisconsin voting to Bosun_
[9:57pm] Sayyida: Good night everyone
[9:57pm] yari: Thank you for the FYI Sayyida
[9:57pm] Joe: Gn
[9:57pm] yari: good night
[9:57pm] jokeefe: Bylaws if it affects how we do things. Platform if it is just a statement of principle.
[9:58pm] Bosun_: I withdraw our motion then.
[9:58pm] Joe: https://etherpad.pp-international.net/p/MAPPImmigrationPlank
[9:58pm] papegaai: Title: Etherpad (at etherpad.pp-international.net)
[9:59pm] yari: Joe, am I to take the link as a subtle suggestion of where to put this proclamation?
[9:59pm] Joe: Do as you will. You will have my support either way.
[10:00pm] yari: I'm not so sure it would go there, though - should just be under general principles of membership.
[10:00pm] yari: Either way, we are nearing end. Let's hold a vote.
[10:00pm] Bosun_: Jokeefe is correct - our only members are states.
[10:01pm] Bosun_: I withdraw my motion.
[10:01pm] jokeefe: What are we voting on? The motion was withdrawn.
[10:01pm] Bosun_: no vote required.
[10:01pm] Joe left the chat room. (connection closed)
[10:01pm] yari: It sounds as though we are moving toward making a statement in the platform somehow. I would suggest that the platform committee be the ones to determine position of this statement.
[10:01pm] Joe joined the chat room.
[10:01pm] Joe left the chat room. (connection closed)
[10:01pm] Bosun_: I move we adjourn.
[10:02pm] yari: statement exactly as written by jokeefe above
[10:02pm] Joe joined the chat room.
[10:02pm] yari: “We welcome everyone who resides in the United States to join our party”
[10:02pm] Joe: 2nd Bosun's motion
[10:02pm] yari: okay, properly moved and seconded to adjourn
[10:03pm] yari: no discussion needed. all in favor?
[10:03pm] Joe: Aye
[10:03pm] pmchi: Aye
[10:03pm] Bosun_: aye
[10:04pm] yari: all opposed, please say nay.
[10:04pm] yari: those still voting in favor, please continue saying aye
[10:05pm] yari: calling the vote
[10:05pm] yari: three in favor, we are adjourned
[10:05pm] Joe: Gn everyone
[10:05pm] yari: this meeting of the PNC is adjourned at 10:05 pm EST
[10:05pm] yari: thank you everyone