PNC 09/25/2022

Agenda

Discussion

Old Business

• A motion, proposed by the Platform committee, that the PNC consider and pass the plank found at https://etherpad.pp-international.net/p/Pan-Americanism_Platform_Discussion_Doc as an official platform position of the USPP.

New Business

• A discussion about the definition of the State Moderator position
• A motion, proposed by CA, to have reports by all officers made a part of the agenda, sent to the secretary or added to the wiki agenda before each meeting.

Summary

Meeting called to order at pm EST.

New Business

Meeting adjourned at pm EST.

Minutes

Record of the meeting

21:26:17 <Woden> Meeting. Now. 9:26. Go.
<yari> okay, sure - that works
<Woden> Anthony Jay, INPP (non-voting), PNC chair
<Joe> Joseph Onoroski, MAPP, Treasurer, and a proper scallywag.
<pmchi> Mitchel Davilo, Chicagoland/ILPP, Swarmcare Manager
<yari> Rose Klein, CA, USPP secretary
<Jester> Ashley Melody, INPP (interim voting rep)
<DrewishHiPreist> Drew Bingaman PA Captain
<Woden> Thank you all for your patience.
<Keljar> Benjamin McCrae, New Jersey (some guy for now)
<Woden> Welcome BenjaminQ
<Woden> !*
<Woden> Agenda: https://wiki.uspirates.org/w/index.php?title=PNC_09/25/2022
<papegaai> Title: PNC 09/25/2022 - United States Pirate Party (at wiki.uspirates.org)
<Woden> Let's start with committee reports.
<Woden> Platform, how did the meeting go? Pmchi
<pmchi> Platform didn’t really have a meeting, instead just electing to refocus on the proposed changes to the Pan-Americanism plank. The revisions based on suggestions have been made and are ready for further discussion and/or approval
<yari> IT - I wasn't be a part of the meeting last week. Jamie's report:
<yari> ah sorry, didn't mean to send that yet
<Woden> Thank you, Pmchi! We will get to the revised version..
<Woden> No worries, let's do IT now.
<yari> Setup Stripe account and went to connect to WooCommerce setup on Wordpress, but it wanted me to repeat the process so it could setup a new account. Downloaded the WooCommerce Stripe plugin and was able to get it hooked up, but still checking how it is all connected together so I can test it. WooCommerce is proving to be more complex than I had hoped.
<yari> ^ that is Jamie's report
<Woden> Massive props to Jamie, he is Pirate-of-the-year for this
<yari> I will be at the meeting this week, hopefully together Jamie and I can get it all working. we're so close
<yari> agreed, Woden
<Woden> I can smell the money now.
<Jester> Yea, excellent work
<Woden> As for outreach, the week was very busy and I promised an action item I couldn't fulfill. I will be working twice as hard this coming week to make up for it. Watch out.
<Woden> Officer time.
<Woden> Treasury, anything new?
<Joe> Yes
<Woden> Hit me
<Joe> We currently have 300 in the account which is scheduled to pay our first bill this week.
<Joe> Also worked with Jamie since it's my contact info that will be the party responsible for cashflow.
<Woden> Everything going according to plan?
<Joe> Lots of pings from swipe already.
<Joe> Aye
<Keljar> What's swipe?
<Joe> Donation button we are working on getting going
<yari> stripe?
<Keljar> Oh ok
<Joe> Currently we have had limited availability for funds and have done contributions via in-kind
<Joe> Yeah, Yari is correct 
<Joe> Also, will get FEC content clarification tomorrow. 
<Joe> Ty
<yari> awesome work Joe
<Woden> Thank you Joe, you're on a roll.
<Woden> Swarmcare?
<Woden> Pmchi
<pmchi> Nothing for Swarmcare, though Keljar I did see you wished to connect with the NJ Pirates. I put together a chat in Discord for them when they first sought to organize. I’ll add you to it; that’ll make three of you lol
<Keljar> Thanks
<Woden> Wow, everyone is chadmaxxing this week.
<Keljar> Gotta start somewhere
<Woden> Sorry, zoomerism
<Woden> Secretary?
<yari> not much. life has been kicking my butt recently, just starting school again. feeling very glad I'm not chair. I have a lot I need to do and not much done. trying to find a balance.
<yari> put another way, I am not 'chadmaxxing'
<Woden> We absolutely understand, Yari. I am in the same boat.
<Woden> Hey hey hey, you are here and you are a valued member of this team. That's chadmaxxing.
<Woden> ...Anyway
<yari> oh I'm not down on myself don
<yari> don't worry
<yari> I just wanted to use the meme in a poorly conceived way
<Keljar> So we are working on the solid agenda for the party to present to the public in an easy to read and understand fashion? Are we gonna go old-school and make pamphlets to hand out?
<Woden> Understood.
<Woden> Keljar, we're always working to improve that stuff. Stick around and we will have opportunities for you.
<yari> can that be part of a new business discussion?
<Woden> My chair report is similar to my outreach report. Stay tuned.
<Woden> Sure, if we get to it.
<Keljar> Im just excited to go out and try to get more members for the party. Was hoping we had pamphlets already made up I could print out and hand out
<pmchi> Keljar you’ll need to add me back as a friend in the Discord and I’ll be able to get you in the Garden State Pirates group
<Woden> I would love if we did. We were working on it and it got lost in the shuffle.
<Woden> Any further debate or discussion on these reports?
<DrewishHiPreist> PA has a trifold. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NihUN-NtXaT3CoTrsw9Yf7lE8aVjxPNM/view?usp=sharing
<Woden> Any reports from elsewhere?
<papegaai> Title: Trifold PPP REV 3.pdf - Google Drive (at drive.google.com)
<Woden> Nice
<yari> none here.
<Keljar> Thanks drew
<yari> oh actually
<yari> CA:
<Keljar> Oh I'm south jersey so I can get to PA in 30 min if there is ever an actual meet up. Would love to chat with fellow pirates in peron
<yari> I screwed up our website registration renewal somehow (though I thought I had it set up correctly) and so now the old site has fallen into the hands of domain squatters. I have instead purchased CApirates.org and will be switching everything over to this site - if you see any links that still say "CALpirates.org", please let me know
<Keljar> Person*
<Woden> Once MA calms down from some covid waves again they also like to do in-person events, just FYI
<DrewishHiPreist> We're pretty spread out ATM. 
<Woden> Understoof Yari, Let's announce that on the discord
<Keljar> Good to know Woden I'll patiently wait for that
<Joe> MA just partook in Extinction Rebellion 
<Joe> 8'P 
<Keljar> I've heard of them I forget what they are about
<Woden> Oh yeah, I forgot about that
<yari> that's all I got
<Joe> https://rebellion.global/
<papegaai> Title: Extinction Rebellion | Join The Fight Against Climate and Ecological Collapse (at rebellion.global)
<Woden> Any objections to moving on?
<Keljar> Doesn't look like it
<Woden> Sounds good. No objections.
<Woden> Time for old business.
<Woden> Pmchi, I will let you have the floor.
<pmchi> I redirect you all to the etherpad from last week (https://etherpad.pp-international.net/p/Pan-Americanism_Platform_Discussion_Doc). I have made edits based on suggestions from last meeting, and it’s ready for further discussions
<papegaai> Title: Etherpad (at etherpad.pp-international.net)
<Woden> Can you give us a changelog?
<yari> self-determination was the main addition
<yari> the other change was the addition of open borders in point one
<pmchi> ^^
<Joe> Motion to adopt this plank.
<yari> I honestly don't see any other changes
<Keljar> Wow all that looks nice
<pmchi> Joe’s suggestion involved Puerto Rico’s status being addressed, so not at single out Puerto Rico (as they will inevitably have a Pirate Party), I added the point of self-determination. The open borders was Drew and Yari’s suggestion
<Woden> There is a motion to adopt.
<pmchi> (Can I second that?)
<Woden> Yes.
<pmchi> Second
<pmchi> Hey man, I’m just trying to play by the rules here
<Joe> I like the way you worded it. 
<Woden> Motioned and seconded, open for discussion and debate.
<yari> There are a few small changes I would like to see for the sake of grammar and clarity, and to make it match the rest of the planks better
<Keljar> I would say we should really try to get PR to become a full state of the US. I know they keep voting not to, but I'm sure if we fix this country they would more than likely join us
<Woden> I will just say, I think these longer planks feel a bit weird with the modular model. It's something to keep in mind for the future more than anything.
<Joe> I would like a path for non states to be able to move from territory to either independence or statehood. So long as that is a thing I am very happy with it.
<Joe> And put a cap on length of a territory to be just that.
<Jester> As much as I do love and believe the addition of open borders, I don't think it would be easy for us to use that on the national or state level very well. Conservative media will absolutely rup us apart on that part.
<Keljar> Well don't worry everyone on that list is actually part of my personal agenda 
<Keljar> Everything*
<Jester> rip*
<Keljar> Could always try my idea I added in the Livestream chats
<Jester> You know the radical in me really wants to go full on and go open borders, but we have to think a little pragmatically about how our platform isn't just percieved by the general public but how the media will twist it to fit their agenda and bury us under a layer of illegitimacy.
<Keljar> Basically make sure at our borders there are courts, hospitals, and social services right there at the legal ports of entry so that people can come in and get vetted quickly and easily with visas and getting them work and housing through the social services. This way even reps can't argue
<Woden> Maybe we can reword it and do the incrementalist "We support free movement and a quick path to citizenship" thing
<Joe> It would take a bit of work diplomatically for us to have completely open borders, but it is a good goal. Thing is, we would have to understand there are many steps to a country to get open border status.
<pmchi> I will say: people in this country have lived with open borders their entire lives. We shouldn’t back down from something that might be met with apprehension from a base that we aren’t directly trying to appeal to. I think the youth in the USA are relatively pro-open border (I’ll need stats to back that up), thus telling me we’ll only see increased popularity. But ultimately it’s this - anything that’ll improve the lives of people is 
<pmchi> worth fighting for
<Keljar> Also expand the immigration court system throughout the country
<Jester> You're expecting the GOP to act in a logical way, which considering the current leadership is unlikely for them
<Woden> We do still need to appeal to moderate zoomers at the very least, and give them an option that isn't the alt right pipeline. That's very important to me.
<Joe> We should not compromise our stance for an opponents mockery. 
<Keljar> Hmm I grew up in a conservative family and they are all Republicans but they like my ideas
<Jester> pmchi if we can get stats on that I will support this
<Keljar> I have field tested this with them
<Jester> actually if I'm being honest I'll probably vote in favor regardless, I just want us to keep it in mind strategy wise
<pmchi> Woden I disagree. Pan-Americanism isn’t about us but the Americas as a whole. I think making this about becoming citizens of the United States of America versus making the Americas a place of unity and freedom
<pmchi> Would be a mistake
<pmchi> Sent that too early
<Keljar> Everyone ignored my comment T.T
<Woden> Okay, I am hearing some form of debate, at the very least.
<Woden> A couple different ideas. Do we want to spend time on this?
<Keljar> I would like to
<Woden> Awesome, we will.
<Woden> Anyone seeking to be recognized for a soapbox spiel?
<yari> I do
<Woden> Yari, go for it.
<yari> I have a rewritten version of the document that I just made. 
<yari> I would like to present to the PNC
<Keljar> Reps want border security, they don't mind legal immigrants, so making it easier for them to come here legally would solve a lot of problems
<DrewishHiPreist> I would argue that point
<Keljar> Feel free
<Woden> Let;s go for Yari's document first.
<yari> https://etherpad.pp-international.net/p/pan-americanismversionalternate
<papegaai> Title: Etherpad (at etherpad.pp-international.net)
<Joe> Also making it easier to renew a green card would solve a lot of problems too.
<yari> It's just a cleaned up and clarified version of Pmchi's proposed language
<yari> I feel I have maintained true to all of the ideas mentioned in the original document
<Woden> Are you proposing we discuss this version in place of pmchi's?
<Jester> Keljar reps don't even like legal immigrants, "border security" rhetoric in the GOP is just a euphemism for hating latinos/hispanics
<Joe> May I request one additional point put in this?
<yari> Woden, I am - if Pmchi is willing, I would like to have this considered as a friendly amendment
<Keljar> Yes Joe, that's why I suggested we expand the immigration courts. The lack of them is the reason so many overstay their visa and become "illegal" (I hate that term)
<Woden> Pmchi?
<yari> since I have, meaning wise, changed nearly nothing
<pmchi> I accept Yari’s revisions
<Woden> The document has been substituted for a draft from CA.
<DrewishHiPreist> I know what the intent of this is, It still feels very much like we're talking down to Central and South America.
<Woden> Okay, GOP intentions debate time.
<Joe> "We seek to do this not to take away jobs from our population but to strengthen our lives and business so we have a better economy for all of us"
<Woden> Or whatever you want to debate
<yari> actually, I would like to take up Drew's point
<yari> can we take up Drew's poing?
<yari> *point
<Woden> If there are no objections.
<pmchi> I’d also like to see Drew’s perspective
<Keljar> Jester that's a stereotype, again I have talked about this with many Republicans already and they have all liked the idea. Not all reps are racist jerks
<DrewishHiPreist> It still seems like we're pushing for the US to take the lead in this process, which IMO will not end well, and still just feels like imperialism
<Woden> We are taking up Drew's point and maybe we can also field some chatter about what IN and NJ are up to
19:10:17 * Joe fears accidentally imposing imperialism...
<yari> Yeah can we come back to the disucssion about GOP stuff? 
<yari> after this
<Woden> Depends on whether or not we want to get out of here at 10:30, it's up to the board.
<DrewishHiPreist> I would simply state that we advocate the free movement of goods and people throughout the Americas.
<yari> As in: Keljar & Jester - I would also like to hear your thoughts on what Drew is saying
<Jester> Keljar it's probably just me applying my "I'm not racist, but..." town to every rep, so it's probably just me applying my experience in one of the most conservative areas in my state and applying everywhere, sorry.
<Keljar> I saw that Drew brings up a good point. That does sounds kinda scetchy
<Keljar> It's ok Jester, I'm just going off my experiences as well
<yari> Drew, can I add something then?
<Jester> I agree, we shouldn't be leading this charge, it would just look like imperialism with another paint job
<DrewishHiPreist> Sure Yari
<pmchi> Drew to your point: we are the United States Pirate Party. If it seems US-centric, I’d like to say that that is only because we have direct control over how we’d fix the USA’s part in all this. As the country that is gatekeeping the words “America” and “American”, I feel as though we have the most to fix. If you’re referring to additions of immigration, I happen to agree and don’t think making this about “Come to the USA if 
<pmchi> you’d like!” is wise. I think anything related to becoming a U.S. citizen should be kept separate from this particular plank. I’d rather this be about collaboration and friendship building
<Jester> so Drew does bring up a great point
<Keljar> Back to Drews thoughts tho. Probably could drop the jobs part
<Jester> I agree with pmchi on this one, anyone in the Americas is an American
<pmchi> Amen
<Keljar> Yes
<Woden> It sounds like you have a concrete proposal, on the jobs part. Keljar
<DrewishHiPreist> Not arguing the point about being an "American", 
<Woden> Flesh it out and maybe a voting member will motion it
<Keljar> I'm also up for that. Eventually I hope we can all get to the status of "Human" eventually s 
<yari> Drew, I would like to get clarification
<yari> Is the part that sounds imperialist the second point?
<yari> We advocate for increased diplomacy in Central America, South America, and the Caribbean, especially where we do not have a good record of friendly and diplomatic relations. We need to earn the trust of our fellow American countries in the New World by being a helpful ally rather than an overarching imperial authority. We advocate for increasing trade and signing friendship treaties with these countries in order to assist them economically, helping to b
<Keljar> Lemme read it again one moment I gotta find the thing. I'm on my phone so I leave chat every time I click a link
<yari> bolster the continent's economy in general, and strengthening our cultural ties as Americans.
<yari> Or if not - which part of this to you feels the most like it is advocating for imperialist actions?
<DrewishHiPreist> Most of these points, IMO should be our stance globally. non intervention of intelligence agencies, general freedom of movement, self determination of each nation, 
<DrewishHiPreist> And yes that second part plus the preamble is where it kinda feels a little imperialist
<Keljar> Oh I was talking about Joe's comment, I got mixed up
<Keljar> We seek to do this not to take away jobs from our population but to strengthen our lives and business so we have a better economy for all of us"
<Keljar> That one
<Woden> Do we want to workshop this another week?
<yari> hang on
<Keljar> Oh yeah I got a colonoscopy tomorrow I gotta go to bed
<Woden> Understood, need to bow out now or soon?
<Joe> That was just to respond to the right though I am not sure we really have to
<yari> I would like to propose then that this become a plank that is applied to not only the USA policy toward the Americas, but to all foreign states
<Keljar> Soon
<Joe> Agreed Yari
<MilesW_ppau> are you guys involved in the chilean global pirate platform project?
<yari> I think we can keep some of the points in here about the USA harm that has specifically been aimed at the Americas and other exploited nations
<DrewishHiPreist> Americas and Asia
<yari> Miles, going to have to ask you to ID
<Woden> So what direction do we want to take this discussion in?
<yari> and welcome
<Woden> Yari is right about that
<MilesW_ppau> Miles, PPAU, National President
<yari> welcome welcome
<Keljar> We def need to stop hindering other nations but the problem is most people don't acknowledge we even do that
<Jester> welcome
<Joe> Ahoy
<Jester> absolutely
<yari> to Miles' question - I don't know. pmchi?
<Keljar> Ahoy Miles 
<yari> and to Woden - it sounds like you want a motion?
<Woden> Maybe a motion, maybe just a statement about what we should do with it.
<MilesW_ppau> Chilean Pirates put it on hold to focus on their constitutional referendum. But I imagine it is starting up again soon
<yari> noted
<yari> reason we should get in contact with them about it?
<pmchi> MilesW_ppau I haven’t heard from them on this issue, but I spoke to some Chilean and Brazilian Pirates on the Pan-American plank
<pmchi> I’m okay with making this a more general, worldwide feel. However, I would not like to waive the idea of Pan-Americanism as a whole. A big bugaboo for me is still the idea of gatekeeping “America” and “American” and I don’t want to lose that. I think it’s important to look at all of us on the continent as American
<DrewishHiPreist> I motion that we put this discussion on hold and work on this to make these points generally "foreign policy"
<yari> second
<yari> and agreed with pmchi
<Woden> A motion and second to put the discussion on hold.
<Woden> I would suggest we go ahead and call the question on that.
<pmchi> Abstain
<DrewishHiPreist> Aye
<Woden> Any objections to voting on the suspension proposal?
<yari> aye
<Woden> Okay I'll just streamline it.
<yari> what
<Woden> All in favor?
<Joe> Aye
<yari> aye
<Jester> aye
<DrewishHiPreist> aye
<pmchi> Abstain
<Woden> 4-0-1
<Keljar> Time for bed
<Joe> Motion to adjourn
<Woden> Discussion put on hold.
<Woden> Motion to adjourn on the table
<Keljar> Goodnight all, pleasure chatting with you all
<pmchi> Goodnight Keljar! Thanks for coming!
<yari> ah damn I had two really great pieces of new business
<yari> second to adjourn
<Joe> Next week, have a killer day tomorrow 
<yari> next time
<Woden> All in favor?
<yari> yeah
<yari> aye
<DrewishHiPreist> aye
<Joe> Booty to plunder and what-not 
<Joe> Aye
<pmchi> WAIT
<yari> ?
<Woden> It's okay mitch, you can vote nay.
<Woden> Well, I don't care about roberts so you can also beg us to stop the presses.
<Jester> Aye
<yari> or you can just say something as a point privilege
<Joe> ^
<pmchi> No, I’ll vote to adjourn, just asking if Yari could add their pieces as next weeks new business
<pmchi> I don’t want to miss your great suggestions
<Joe> Hmm, this would still be old business. 🤔 
<yari> oh yeah of course. they'll be old business, actually, since they were new business today
<Woden> I think that's a given.
22:29:34 <Woden> That being said, meeting adjourned.