PNC 01/15/2023

Summary

Meeting called to order at 9:04pm EST.

New Business

Meeting adjourned at 10:09pm EST.

Minutes

Record of the meeting

<Woden> Calling this meeting to order at 9:04 Eastern.
<Woden> IDs?
<pmchi> Mitchel Davilo, Chicagoland/ILPP, Swarmcare Manager
<Woden> Anthony Jay, IN, PNC Chair
<DreadPirateDrew> Drew Bingaman PA Captain
<Joe> Joseph Onoroski, Treasurer and USPP representative 
<yari> Rose Klein, CA, PNC secretary
<Oz> Ethan Osborne KY captain
<Mariah-Lynne> Mariah-Lynne, KYPP Secretary
<mysty> Mysy O'Kneel, Masachusetts, USPP Representative
<mysty> *Mysty
<pmchi> For the record, who is Kentucky’s voting member?
<Oz> Me
<Woden> Good question.
<Woden> Okay, thank you!
<Woden> Do we have an agenda together? 
<yari> uh
<yari> no
<yari> working on it
<yari> sorry, it's been a week
<Woden> That is alright, I can wing it.
<Woden> Let's start with reports. Swarmcare?
<pmchi> Nothing of note to report for swarmcare. I am hoping to do a state outreach soon, but that is not in a planned out stage yet
<Woden> Thank you! Secretary?
<pmchi> Via Skype, similar to the other outreach meetings we have held. This one would not be ideological, and instead just for people from interested states
<yari> I had too much that landed on my plate late in the week to get 'The Cannon' up and running, though I sort of expected that might happen this week. Today is my first real day of rest and I'm going to take the time to type up the summary for Mitch after the meeting. Other than that, still hoping to do a wiki training soon, will poll ppl in discord about it
<Woden> Thank you!
<Woden> Treasury?
<Joe> This was also a hectic week for me. I have office time scheduled to clean up last year's reports.
<Joe> Office day on Tuesday. 
<Woden> That is alright, beginning of the year and all. Chair:
<Joe> No major expenses. 
<Joe> Ty
<Woden> Nothing intense happening for Chair. Talking to Brianna about the press committee and Joe just called me about consolidating our media projects into the media committee and meeting to work on 'em weekly. We definitely need new volunteers not assigned to anything else to take interest in both. Let's see if we can do that. Other than that, saw an email today about a conference we were asked to attend. Will scope that out this week.
<yari> thank you for responding to that, btw
<Woden> Of course, seems interesting.
<yari> it does
<Woden> Committees: Platform
<yari> Joe or pmchi?
<Woden> Pmchi, I would assume
<Joe> Platform Committee did not happen last week due to attendance/illness. We will be continuing discussions and proposals of the 2a issue tomorrow.
<Woden> Oh, that works too
<Woden> Pmchi, anything to add?
<pmchi> Nothing to add, thank you Joe
 * Joe tips his hat.
<Woden> Okay, IT?
<yari> nothing to report, no meeting happened
<Woden> Sounds good.
<Woden> Outreach:
<Woden> Outreach meeting did happen. No new material, but we looked over Pmchi's existing 2021 social media guidelines and re-affirmed them as something we should enforce.
<yari> question:
<Woden> Guidelines can be found here: https://wiki.uspirates.org/w/index.php?title=Social_Media_Guidelines
<papegaai> Title: Social Media Guidelines - United States Pirate Party (at wiki.uspirates.org)
<yari> any direction from the committee on enforcement?
<Woden> There might be a discussion around this, can we save it for new business?
<yari> sure
<Woden> We could get lost.
<yari> lost at sea
<DreadPirateDrew> Follow the stars
<Woden> For the record, no, we didn't have any specific ideas on that detail.
<Woden> Any further discussion on the reports or general notes from those we have not heard from?
<pmchi> One small piece of outreach: I made a tweet suggesting Marcus Rediker (Pirate historian) joins us so we can clear the good name of “Pirate”, and he liked the tweet. For what that’s worth, I plan to reach out to him for future collaboration
<Woden> Good work, Pmchi
<Woden> Note I'll add on outreach - everybody loves Pmchi and I's social media game recently. Please clap
 * yari claps furiously
<Joe> One bit of business. There are several international meetings this week I plan to attend. 
<yari> Thank you for bringning that up, Joe. Could you give us the details?
<Joe> One Tuesday, general assembly preparation 
<Oz> Thats cool about Rediker!
<Joe> Board meeting on Wednesday 
<Joe> Next Tuesday is the main board meeting and international coordination 
<yari> wow, that is a lot
<yari> I want to attend them if possible. Would you be able to post links or something?
<yari> I think Joe might be having internet issues
<Woden> Odd.
 * yari sips tea from a mug that says "internet is a human right, prove me wrong"
<Joseph> The internet is a cruel mistress.
<Woden> Any further comments?
<Joseph> But I can't help myself.
<yari> so is the moon, I've heard
<Joseph> That's why I am so glad to announce the new MAPP rep! 
<Joseph> Who's laptop just died.
<Joseph> I would be happy to share the details after Yari.
<yari> oh I'm not saying anything rn
<yari> Mysty is wonderful
<Joseph> I mean the details to the international meetings.
<Joseph> Joseph Onoroski, for the record.
<yari> ahhhhhh, after the meeting, gotcha
<yari> cool
<Woden> Any objections to moving on?
<yari> do it
<Woden> Moving on.
<yari> There was no old business, I checked
<yari> btw
<yari> everything is new
<Woden> There is no new or old business on the agenda. May I ask if we continue the social media discussion?
<yari> I'm cool with that
<Woden> Okay. I will link them again and open up the floor to public comment.
<Woden> https://wiki.uspirates.org/w/index.php?title=Social_Media_Guidelines
<papegaai> Title: Social Media Guidelines - United States Pirate Party (at wiki.uspirates.org)
<Woden> Public comment?
<Mariah-Lynne> I do.
<Woden> Go for it
<Mariah-Lynne> Enforcement of what social media guidelines? Those are for USPP's platforms. They're not state's guidelines because we have our own.
<Mariah-Lynne> So I don't understand why this is still continuing after two months when I addressed this on the Outreach board on Discord when AJ wanted to dictate social media guidelines to state parties because AJ and Brianna didn't like Ethan's tweets when he called fascist Massie a fascist.
<Mariah-Lynne> After all the work Ethan and I did for his Congressional campaign, and he winning 4% of the vote with 10,111 votes, you want to start telling Ethan he has to change how he is in order to please you?
<yari> okay uh
<Mariah-Lynne> Sidenote, Ethan will be leaving soon for California storm cleanup.
<yari> Bless and thank you to Ethan
<DreadPirateDrew> Specifically this is for people with the keys to USPP social media accounts right???
<Joe> I hope he is safe out there. CA really needs the help.
<Mariah-Lynne> He'll be driving cross-country the entire way. lol
<Woden> First, I do believe who these apply to is somewhat vague at the moment, they were initially created with national in mind.
<Oz> I think those guide lines are fine for the USPP party but I dont think USPP should really be telling individual states what to do with their social media unless its something like absolutely henious 
<Oz> Thanks Yari
<Mariah-Lynne> Drew, it was for state parties and specifically Ethan's tweets on his own account.
<Woden> Heard, Oz.
<yari> Mariah, what I'm hearing you say is that you're talking about what you see as the intention behind bringing this up. I think Drew is asking about who the rule will apply to, if we enforce it
<yari> which is a very different question
<DreadPirateDrew> That is what I am asking
<Joe> I am in agreement with you Oz
<yari> I need to take a minute and reread the guidelines, tbh
<Woden> Sorry, I am back.
<Woden> 1. Who it applies to is one of the places we could take this.
<DreadPirateDrew> I think we need to settle that question before we can move forward
<yari> I am of two minds - I am in agreement with Oz on that principle of course, and I don't think it's hard to see why. And also, "absolutely heinous" is a very fuzzy line. 
<Woden> 2. The intention of it being brought up is that it's yet to be resolved and seems important. It never died and came back, it's been in committee for a bit
<yari> Okay, rereading the guidelines
<yari> and uh
<yari> This definitely feels like it applies only, and explicitly, to USPP accounts
<DreadPirateDrew> That is how I read things.
<yari> and to the volunteers thereof
<yari> not to member states
<yari> Member states can still be voted out of the PNC or put on probation by the other members, but the point of the PNC is to help the states, so I think this makes sense.
<Mariah-Lynne> During the Outreach meeting on Discord between AJ and Keljar, it was about state parties, and about what Ethan himself was tweeting on his own timeline. I'm the only one who updates the KYPP twitter account.
<Woden> Okay, should it? Or should we create another method for resolving messaging disputes between independent parties?
<Woden> I'm going to guess the latter
<Mariah-Lynne> Two months ago on Discord on the Outreach section of the Discord.
<DreadPirateDrew> There are other ways to deal with rogue state parties
<yari> I mean, this sounds like an issue for moderation and for the state moderator position specifically
<yari> (which we haven't filled yet lol)\
<yari> but this very much feels like the sort of thing that would fall under that purview
<Woden> That is true.
<Mariah-Lynne> AJ and Brianna pointed out Ethan's tweets calling Massie a fascist. And Ethan using the hammer and sickle they equated to a swaztika. Ethan uses it as it was originally meant for worker's rights. 
<yari> AJ, from what I hear, you take issue with the tone of some of the posts Ethan made. Ethan and Mariah-Lynne, from what I hear, you take issue with the way that AJ has addressed his concerns to you
<Woden> Forgive me, my brain isn't at full capacity right now. I do want to state again that this didn't come up to punish anyone in particular. That's not the intent.
<yari> And yes, I want to reiterate - Mariah-Lynne. Nobody is on trial here. We are trying to resolve conflict, not attack each other
<Woden> There is a dispute we need to resolve, but that's not the primary intention of the fact this has been in committee. 
<yari> if you cannot fundamentally accept that premise, then frankly I do want you out of the party
<Woden> Mitch has already volunteered to moderate specific disputes for the time being.
<yari> forgive me, that last line was a bit harsh
<Woden> I'm not entirely happy with the way I've been characterized when it comes to that dispute.
<yari> ^
<Joe> Nah, Mitch can take it. >.<
<yari> And again, I think this comes down to a dispute resolution issue
<yari> which is outside the purview of the PNC
<Woden> But this is more of an open ended discussion about social media guidelines in all of their facets. National, state, etc. What the codes of conduct should be and why. This has come from multiple places, INCLUDING the fact we have no clear way to settle reasonable and honest disputes about it
<Mariah-Lynne> What dispute? AJ and Brianna is who had a problem with Ethan.
<yari> Mariah-Lynne, based on the tone of your comments, you clearly have a problem with AJ and Brianna
<yari> so I would characterize that as conflict
<yari> no matter how it started
<yari> and we should aim to resolve it
<Woden> I don't remember the exact details of every interaction that started this. I remember trying to get feedback from others and also trying to talk to both KY reps directly, and it's left us with something that needs to be resolved. I don't have any ill will toward anyone, but we do have something to fix and it is not one sided.
<Woden> I want to fix it.
<Joe> Would a third party that was uninvolved in this be satisfactory for now? I can handle it this week to get this behind us.
<DreadPirateDrew> I am of the opinion that the moderator position should be for mediating conflicts with State Parties and the USPP
<Oz> The only issue I have is being told how I can post on social media from my personal account or on a state party account
<Joe> Or we could go to the old guard, such as liz.
<yari> Drew, if that is the case, what happens when stuff like this comes up?
<yari> We clearly need conflic resolution folks
<Woden> Joe, Mitch volunteered to pick this up. If you want to help, get in touch with him
<Woden> We do, we haven;t had one for too long.
<DreadPirateDrew> And the social media policy should be for direct USPP volunteers who are directly involved with USPP accounts. If it's good it can be a good start for states to also adopt, but I wouldn't make it mandatory
<yari> ^
<
<yari> agreed with Drew on the above
<Woden> Personally, I would like to seek to abdicate my gavel to Joe or Yari as I cannot facilitate this discussion properly.
<DreadPirateDrew> This IMO is a conflict with the USPP and a state party
<Woden> For the remainder of the meeting
<Joe> Yari, the floor is yours, but also motion to adjourn. 
<yari> pick one
<Mariah-Lynne> Kentucky has been minding our own business running a candidate. Ethan later tells me AJ went to him other times about his tweets on his own timelines.
<yari> motion on the floor
<Woden> I do not believe I am an unbiased party.
<Woden> Yari
<Woden> You're good at this.
<yari> Mariah-Lynne, I regret that we will have to save the conflict resolution discussion for another time when we are not in an actual meeting
<Mariah-Lynne> Kentucky already follows the core values. So I don't know what the problem is.
<yari> suffice to say that it seems there will not be any official enforcement of the social media guidelines on states, unless I hear a motion or objections otherwise
<DreadPirateDrew> no objection
<yari> Mariah-Lynne, the problem is that you have beef with AJ and Brianna and I need you to get that shit taken care of
<Joe> None for MAPP either. 
<Woden> I'm a bit miffed that all that has come of this are attacks on my character. I don't know how to deal with this, I'm willing to admit that, but my intentions have not been impure.
<yari> hearing that there are no objections, I will once again remind folks we have a motion to adjourn on the floor
<yari> Woden, heard
<Woden> I would like some level of resolution before we adjourn.
<Mariah-Lynne> No one is attacking your character. It's you several times telling Ethan what he can and can't tweet from his own account, and you wanting guidelines issued to state parties.
<yari> Okay, then this is right now turning into a conflict resolution place.
<Woden> I dispute rather heavily that this isn't about my character.
<yari> pause on all messages please
<yari> I want a second on the motion to adjourn, and we will stop the actual meeting
<DreadPirateDrew> second
<yari> then we can have a discussion about this so it isn't on the wiki
<Joe> Motioned and 2nded
<yari> all in favor of adjourning, please say aye. opposed, say nay
<Joe> Aye
<Oz> aye
<DreadPirateDrew> aye\
<Woden> Aye
<Mariah-Lynne> aye
<yari> california has the gavel and so cannot vote
<yari> 4 ayes, the meeting is adjourned at 10:09pm Eastern