PNC 05/07/2023

May 7th, 2023

Agenda

Discussion

Old Business

• USPP Conference planning update
• Wording of USPP advisory board

Meeting Minutes

21:04:20 <Woden> Calling meeting to order at 9:04 eastern time.
<xmxvx> hi sister of woden
* xmxvx is in order
<Woden> Hi
<Woden> IDs?
<yari> Rose Klein, CA rep and USPP secretary
<pmchi> Mitchel Davilo, Chicagoland/ILPP, Swarmcare Manager
<DreadPirateDrew> Drew Bingaman, Pennsylvania captain
<xmxvx> Sarai Oviedo, observing TX rep, outreach
<Woden> Anthony jay Porter chair. Texter Katelyn Marie Porter 
<xmxvx> *USPP outreach
<Wanda> Wanda Ward from Florida
<Dausume> Dustin Etts from Virginia/DMV region
<yari> a well populated meeting!
<xmxvx> # votepirate
<Woden> Is there a Secretary report?
<yari> sure, I can start things off
<Woden> Okay, go ahead.
Joe has joined
<Joe> Ahoy
<yari> First I should mention that since we didn't have a proper meeting last week and I didn't take very thorough notes, I'm not super sure about what all should be on the agenda for today.
<yari> That said, the meeting we did have last week was incredibly productive
<Joe> Joseph Onoroski, Treasurer
<Joe> Sry for late
<yari> we have an entire timeline laid out for the conference, and I'm right now setting up the pages for it on the website
<xmxvx> <3 Joe
<yari> that's the bulk of the update
<Woden> I’m glad the meeting was productive!
<Woden> Thank you, Yari.
<xmxvx> Great work pirates!
<yari> Happy to give the details on the schedule when required
<Wanda> I would like to ask if there is a way to turn text to speech on. on my end of course 
<Woden> Does swarmcare have a report?
<pmchi> Was still planning the regional outreach this month, but I think I’ll prioritize the conference instead and wait until June to do the Heartland Pirates outreach
<Woden> Sounds like a plan. Thank you!
<Woden> Treasury?
<Joe> Nothing to report atm
<Woden> That’s alright.
<yari> would like to ask what our current bank amt is
<yari> if you know
<Woden> I don’t believe we are forgetting any officers. If there are no objections we will do committees.
<Woden> Request permitted if Joe can answer 
<Joe> One moment 
<Joe> 389.18
<yari> cool thank you
<Woden> That’s excellent.
* Joe give yari a thumbs up!
* yari returns the thumbs up
<Woden> Moving on to committees 
Woden has quit
<yari> oh no
<xmxvx> aight tech be that way
Woden has joined
<Woden> We are back.
<xmxvx> wb woden and sister
* yari uses this opportunity to plug internet as a human right
<Woden> Outreach report?
<xmxvx> give me a second to type in
<xmxvx> 1_newest addition looking for either a process or a discussion point to adopt the addition of (P) next to a legistlator such as Democrats have (D) and Republicans have (R)
<xmxvx> 2_amazing meeting May 2. Lots of work looked into standardizing a process for using meetup
<xmxvx> 3_we make amazing memes
<yari> ^^
<xmxvx> Dustin anything else I left out?
<xmxvx> 4_no Weekly Pirate chat but still great turn out
<Dausume> Not much, just talking through roles for new people joining
<xmxvx> pirates be piratin'
<Wanda> It may not be the best idea to use (P) for Pirates because it could be confused for other parties that start with a P. The Vermont Progressives come to mind
<xmxvx> Good point. It's something to think of more as we grow.
<Woden> Thank you!
<Joe> Question?
<DreadPirateDrew> When you get on the ballot, the election board will use a short form. I believe locally it's PIR
<Wanda> PIR makes sense to me 
<Woden> Joe may ask the question.
<xmxvx> Question for outreach?
<Joe> For outreach, yes.
<xmxvx> Great!
<Joe> Have you gotten control of our reddit yet?
<Woden> Also Dausume did you ID? If not please give your full name and state 
<yari> Dausume gave id
<xmxvx> Control of our reddit hasn't began.
<Joe> O yeah, Massachusetts, for the record 
<Dausume> I did pretty early on yeah, Dustin Etts and Virginia
<Woden> Sorry - chair is on hard mode right now
<xmxvx> I started with our media kit. Website.
<Woden> I did not recognize you but she read me your name 
<yari> I'm on top of IDs
<xmxvx> Want to hit socials afterward.
<Joe> Ok, I am not sure who is the mod but it would be good to have.
<yari> nice, V. thank you for that
<Woden> Also, I’m back for a moment.
<yari> Joe makes a good point
<xmxvx> re: reddit. Reddit has a great tool to recover subreddits.
<Woden> If we need to discuss anything else outreach related, maybe it could be a business item.
<yari> or an outreach discussion
<xmxvx> Yay!
<Woden> Or that.
<Woden> IT?
* xmxvx points at yari
<yari> haha
<Joe> I yield. 
<yari> not much to report. chased broken links and updated stuff, added some things about the conference
<yari> there has been conversation of further ambitions but nothing materialized yet
<yari> v and dausume have been present and that is appreciated
<xmxvx> <3
<Woden> Love you two, thanks for joining the crew on this level.
<Woden> Platform? + any lingering thoughts on committee reports 
<xmxvx> I have a question about platform.
<Woden> Let’s see if there is a report then I will let you shoot.
<Joe> I have missed the last few meetings but I would be happy to attempt an answer 
<Woden> Not seeing a report from Mitch, go ahead and throw out the question 
<xmxvx> We have some pending platform business and votes on LVT. Can we get an extension on our extension?
<Joe> Pmchi seems unable to continue hosting the meetings. I will attempt to step up again until you find someone better or I'm dead.
<xmxvx> Aw Joe. No die.
<Joe> I promised nothing, having an active outdoor lifestyle. 
<Woden> We can always move the time and place?
<Joe> Monday has been working. 
<Woden> Nothing is set in stone, throwing that out there for both or either conktree chair 
<Woden> Okay, fair
<Woden> Committee* 
<xmxvx> We get a good crowd, too.
<Woden> Fair lol. What’s the answer to V question? 
<yari> people like talking platform, it's basically what most ppl are here for
<Joe> Nothing to report at this time. Platform 
<Woden> 21:29:08 <xmxvx> We have some pending platform business and votes on LVT. Can we get an extension on our extension?
<Woden> Maybe I’m misunderstanding the question. Are you asking to scrub the agenda of platform things?
<Woden> We don’t require anything we aren’t ready.
<xmxvx> No. Just confirming that PNC is aware that Platform is still working on the LVT. We were asked to look at it and finalize the etherpad in April.
<yari> gotcha
<xmxvx> On 3 April 2023 according to the logs.
<yari> tbh I forgot about that
<Joe> Since LVT was pmchi baby, I would prefer deferring for week to be sure I do it justice. 
<pmchi> I stepped away from Platform a few meetings ago. It’s been running autonomously, but I don’t have any answers on what’s happening
<xmxvx> Okay. Well.
<yari> LVT is a big issue, please take time
<Woden> Platform Autonomous Zone
<yari> I mean it's still run by pirates
<xmxvx> I'm looking forward to seeing what we come up with!
<pmchi> However, the LVT case has seemingly been the subject matter and, with or without me, I’ve been impressed with their progress on the issue
<xmxvx> Cool.
<Joe> I may need to be made an agent on discord again.
<Joe> *admin
<xmxvx> Secret Agent Joe?
<Joe> Lol
<xmxvx> Oh man secret agent was cool too.
<Joe> I'm against government secrets 
<Wanda> Joe over here joining the DBI (Discord Bureau of Investigation) 
<Dausume> I think the only things I know of that have changed is noting where some open source research on the subject might be found, and noting we should include some kind of wording that analysis should be done per-locality before applying LVT changes, to ensure it does not impact local economies negatively by just applying it as a blanket and assuming it will work
<xmxvx> Excuse me, I'm already writing a freedom of information act.
<Woden> That can be done for you Joe
<Joe> Ty
<xmxvx> * freedom of information act request
<Woden> Platform gets all the time it needs. I think we’re in agreement on that.
<Woden> Any further discussion or debate on reports?
<xmxvx> Not from me :)
<Woden> Hearing none, what semblance of an agenda do we have?
<yari> USPP Conference planning update, then Wording of USPP advisory board
<yari> would argue conference is always more important potentially
<Woden> Okay. Conference time. 
<Woden> What first?
<yari> may I have the floor?
<Woden> First come first serve
<Woden> Yes please!
<yari> we came up with a rigorous schedule for the conference last week:
<yari> this includes having 2-3 hours of programming per night starting at 8pm EST. However, we decided to start the conference on Wednesday instead of Monday
<yari> This is useful because Monday that week is a holiday and is usually sparsely attended
<yari> the plan is to have a video explaining the conference schedule and conference details release Tuesday
<Woden> I will sign off on anything that we have the IT people to do
<yari> then to have pirate chat tuesday, but longer than usual
<Woden> However, will that provide us enough time to have elections? Since we want to incorporate mass democracy after a few debates 
<yari> Nominations will close Tuesday evening at 11:59pm Pacific
<yari> thus allowing for the hype of any additional nominations during pirate chat to filter through
<yari> wednesday morning/afternoon will probably need some extra hands to process data and contact candidates
<yari> Wednesday evening is the candidate forum
<yari> and Q&A
<yari> for any candidate who can make it
<Woden> These folks have a good plan. Any objections?
<Joe> Aye
<yari> any one who cannot but agrees to be a candidate will be offered the chance to submit a 15 minute video to be aired during the conference sometime
<xmxvx> No objects. Do you have that as a txt or itenerary form to make into a outreach material?
<Joe> Ma has objections. 
<yari> Well hang on I'm not done lol
Wodens has joined
<xmxvx> I apologize.
<Joe> I broken woden. :(
<yari> Sunday at 8pm EST will be the public counting of the vote
<yari> That allows for the entirety of the conference for the voting page to be up and public
<yari> plenty of time
Wodens and Woden have quit
<pmchi> Wodenless
<xmxvx> Seems so.
<xmxvx> I need to make a meme, 1 second.
<Joe> Afk as well
<pmchi> Idk if we’d like to wait for our Captain to return, but I’d like to hear MA’s objection
<yari> Then after the public counting of the votes for officers, the PNC will have the meeting at which votes are ratified at 9pm EST on Sunday, ending the conference
<yari> okay now I'm done and same 
<yari> I would like to hear from MA
<xmxvx> Yes. We will wait for MA
<Dausume> What does MA stand for?
<yari> Massachusetts
<Dausume> ...
<yari> though I probably spelled that wrong
<Joe> Si
<Joe> You got it right, yari
<yari> oh dang first try
<yari> Joe what is the objection?
<pmchi> What was the objection from MA, Joe? In the interest of transparency, I will remind everyone that the notes will be posted on the Wiki, so AJ would be able to catch up, even in his current absence
<yari> ^
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<Joe> Our objection is a simple one. When forming the national org we took a lot of care to prevent trolling and give each state a vote. Though we love the idea of everyone having a voice, does this not bypass previous thoughts and actions? Did we change the bylaws to this new voting process?
<yari> I can answer the second part
<Joe> Also, Jamie was not happy. We must keep Jamie happy. It's a must.
Woden has joined
<Joe> Wb Woden
Wofen has joined
<Wofen> I am so sorry
<Wofen> I am back
<xmxvx> wb
<Joe> No worries. I was just causing problems, like usual. 
<yari> We did not change the bylaws. What we are doing here is creating a public vote for the officers and then allowing a vote of the PNC to ratify that vote. I will state explicitly here what I have been witholding the entire time - which is that the PNC *can* vote not to ratify the voice of the people.
Dausume has quit
<Wofen> Let’s have the conversation for MA. Continue everyone.
<yari> Woden, we already began
<yari> I will repost the objection:
<yari> Our objection is a simple one. When forming the national org we took a lot of care to prevent trolling and give each state a vote. Though we love the idea of everyone having a voice, does this not bypass previous thoughts and actions? Did we change the bylaws to this new voting process?
<Wofen> That’s why I said continue 
<Wofen> I can see it thankfully this time
Dausume has joined
<yari> Does MA love the idea of everyone having a voice without a vote?
<Joe> These were the objections brought forth through our chapter. I want the election to be open in fair personally. 
<yari> I genuinely appreciate you bringing forth the objections
<yari> I will be livestreaming the vote counting process
<Joe> If it's easy, usually it's not worth it.
<yari> and will appreciate any assistance with that
<yari> Joe I don't think that's a useful heuristic
<yari> Capitalism is hard
<Joe> Lol, but Murphy's law applies to it so well.
* yari avoids going down a philosophical rabbit hole
<yari> The bylaws have not been changed
<pmchi> IL would like to second the objection. I was under the impression the public vote was the voice of the people, but it was still the PNC members voting for the positions. Am I correct or shall it be something else?
<yari> pmchi you are correct I think
<yari> the PNC will be given the public vote as information
<yari> and can use that information how they will
<Wofen> The PNC still has to certify the vote. 
<yari> I will be transparent and say I would prefer that we go along with it
<yari> but we don't have to
<Joe> Yari, I will help but you will have to call me when you are doing it. 
<yari> Also the primary reason we would change the bylaws is if the voting process for every single decision was changed
<pmchi> Almost like an electoral college, and saying that out loud makes me dislike this idea. I know we want to give the voice of the people, but are we letting them choose or is their vote simply an acknowledgment of their preference. Is their choice of candidate everyone in the PNC’s choice in candidates
<pmchi> ?
<yari> recall that this is a decision happening once a year
<yari> it's not like an electoral college
<Wofen> We are getting public input, but the PNC will still vote as Normal.
<yari> ^
<yari> and I will bargain hard for the PNC simply voting with the people
<Joe> Why not make the board a popular vote and the day to day decisions by state vote?
<yari> that's an excellent question, Joe
<pmchi> So like the electoral college, the public vote is their vote but the state electors are picking the choices
<Joe> We can change the bylaws, we can make them better.
<yari> I agree Joe
<yari> that is why that hasn't happened
<yari> because doing so would be a bylaws change, if it were to be solidified
<yari> probably
<yari> having this be a nebulous thing that can be overturned by the PNC still and that is not set in stone but is just a precedent
<yari> means its not a blaws change
<Joe> Yari, if you write it, it will be 2nded. 
<Wofen> If my scribe can’t understand it, I think we’re making it too complicated.
<Wofen> What are our primary issues with the system as described right now?
<Joe> Though I think we should only make board members by popular vote.
<yari> Joe agreed
<yari> I can't write a bylaws change on the fly
<yari> I can write it up for next week
<Joe> Like pmchi said, electoral college is something that we don't want to replicate. 
<yari> I'll be happy to run it by Jamie or anyone else
<yari> agreed
<Wofen> So we are looking to make it more democratic? And this would resolve Jamie’s objection? 
<pmchi> What is the purpose of the public vote, and what does their input have on the overall election? Do I, as IL, have to vote as the public votes?
<Wofen> I will say, we only implemented this system to be a bandaid for this year. We want to fix it forever at some point
<yari> I think Jamie's objection is that we're doing things ad-hoc without solidifying the process in a bylaws change
<Joe> It's not just Jamie, I also do not want to bypass our own rules to feel better. 
<Wofen> Ah. So similar to my objection a few weeks ago
<yari> okay:
<Wofen> I’m amicable to that. How about we come up with a proposal for next week?
<Joe> Basically, ? 
<yari> I can clarify
<yari> NO MOTION WE PASS
<yari> can restrict your vote
<yari> UNLESS
<yari> it is a bylaws change
<yari> at the end of the conference, we will be told what the public has voted
<yari> and we will be asked to vote for officers
<yari> I will be voting with the public
<yari> and I will politely ask you all to do the same
<pmchi> An electoral college
<Joe> ^
<yari> but yes, it would be nice to have a bylaws change to make that set in stone
<yari> I mean, sure
<yari> it's an electoral college
<yari> you win woo
<Wofen> I do want to clarify as well that we put this in motion with the agreement we all would do that.
<yari> minus the hundreds of years of awful institutional oppression
<Wofen> As a fix to this specific conference, hoping to get bylaws changes in place for the future 
<Joe> Until the day one of us doesn't....
<yari> OMG Joe
<yari> I can give a bylaws change next week
<yari> can we move on
<Wofen> Deal. Any objections to that?
<Joe> ^.^
<Wofen> Yari will bring the bylaws change next week
<Joe> Ok
Wanda has quit
<yari> sometimes y'all are worse sticklers for the rules than me and it's wild
* Joe rolfmao
<pmchi> Joe, can I request Jamie attends next week’s meeting so we can fully hear out MA’s objections
<pmchi> So both of you in attendance
<Joe> I will be happy to ask, but I was in agreement with him on this one. 
<yari> I will note that I recall Jamie being upset with the PNC also making changes to the nomination form 
<yari> because by doing so they were essentially changing the roster of officers without a bylaws change
<yari> which I know we all grappled with extensively
<yari> whilst doing it
<yari> so, the same objections we had already discussed
<Joe> Basically, sorry for the dead horse. 
<yari> Yeah I mean
<yari> at a certain point we have to start understanding objections as from states instead of individuals, and I like this conversation as an example of that
<yari> especially as we grow
<Joe> I think a simple solution is to make a bylaw change. We never scoffed at such a thing before. 
<yari> motion to adjourn
<Joe> 2nd
<yari> not scoffing at it
<Wofen> All in favor?
<yari> aye
<pmchi> Aye
<Joe> Aye
<Wofen> PA?
<yari> DreadPirateDrew
<yari> call it
<Wofen> Called.
22:15:40 <Wofen> Meeting adjourned at 10:15 Eastern