Outreach 02/23/21

[20:00:59]  <Yari> Ahoy 
[20:01:04]  <@Bosun> Ahoy Yari
[20:01:06]  <pmchi> Ahoy everyone!
[20:01:17]  <Olivia_> Hey everyone.
[20:01:54]  <@Bosun> I put the state outline pirate flag on ILPP twitter.
[20:02:00]  <pmchi> Mitchel Davilo, Chicago/ILPP
[20:02:07]  <Yari> Okay let's get started 
[20:02:09]  <pmchi> Thank you @Bosun
[20:02:11]  <Yari> Ids 
[20:02:19]  <Yari> Rose Klein, California 
[20:02:25]  <@Bosun> Joe Klein - USPP Chair.
[20:02:41]  <Olivia_> Olivia Kristiann, SouthWest, volunteer
[20:03:29]  <Yari> Old business first 
[20:04:09]  <Yari> Pmchi, could you please update on current status of the social media guidelines draft? 
[20:04:18]  <Yari> I'm not sure that I'm all caught up 
[20:04:38]  <pmchi> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/HSdZn56r/Draft+for+Social+Media+Guidelines.docx
[20:05:09]  <pmchi> This is the draft I had originally sent. I didn’t make any edits to it, I wanted to discuss it here
[20:05:29]  <Yari> Okay before we get into discussing 
[20:05:30]  <@Bosun> OK
[20:05:54]  <Yari> I should make the announcement that jokeefe will not be able to join tonight 
[20:06:10]  <Yari> He was planning on doing the demo 
[20:06:18]  <Yari> We will reschedule 
[20:06:30]  <@Bosun> I warn you I have az nasty editor's pencil.
[20:06:31]  <Yari> Newsletter demo
[20:07:36]  <Yari> Okay are there any objections to beginning discussions? 
[20:07:46]  <Yari> On the guidelines 
[20:07:52]  <Yari> As pmchi suggested 
[20:08:01]  <@Bosun> Nope
[20:08:49]  <@Bosun> May I?
[20:09:11]  <Yari> Hearing no objections, please go ahead Bosun 
[20:09:21]  <Yari> Discussion is open
[20:10:59]  <@Bosun> #1 is a goal. I think this needs to be broken into things we do not want, goals, addendums for particular platforms.
[20:11:31]  <@Bosun> not necissaarilly in that order. High lofty goals are always a good start.
[20:12:25]  <@Bosun> Will be ... updated etc ... is fine if we had staff. But we do not. Better - The goal is to provide ...
[20:13:19]  <@Bosun> Noes - No being an ass written in nice rule sets.
[20:15:25]  <@Bosun> As for the strange drama ... I gave Olivia my humble opinions off the cuff. I suggested more formal rules because lazy non contributor love throwing rocks.
[20:16:05]  <@Bosun> As chair I am always the rock target.
[20:17:14]  <@Bosun> I can hash this up in a few minutes if you want. 
[20:17:54]  <@Bosun> Lastly - keep thus stuff off the main list untill the draft is fully baked.
[20:20:05]  <Yari> Bosun, so it sounds like you're suggesting that the guidelines have sections, one for goals, one for noes, etc? 
[20:20:22]  <@Bosun> Yes.
[20:20:48]  <@Bosun> And maybe a high spirited preamble.
[20:20:58]  <Yari> And the first goal, #1 in current,  be rephrased as providing... What? 
[20:21:32]  <Yari> I see what you mean that we don't have staff, and cannot always adhere to update schedules 
[20:22:54]  <@Bosun> We want to attract people, but not be so timid in pushing for justice that we throw out principals for a few votes.
[20:23:26]  <@Bosun> We don't want to be Dems or the GOP.
[20:23:41]  <Yari> True
[20:25:07]  <Yari> And you are suggesting more formal rules pertaining to which part? 
[20:25:40]  <@Bosun> Noes.
[20:26:28]  <Yari> How can current noes be made more formal? 
[20:26:43]  <Yari> Or more strict? 
[20:27:06]  <Yari> I think there's always interpretation issues with platforms like this 
[20:29:12]  <@Bosun> No ad hominem attacks. No attacks based on gender, class, race, or age.
[20:29:44]  <Yari> Are you suggesting that to replace or in addition to? 
[20:29:46]  <@Bosun> Enforcment is always a trial by peers.
[20:30:34]  <@Bosun> You guys talk a bit I have a 5 minute task I need to work on here.
[20:32:42]  <@Bosun> Sorry - had to get dinner.
[20:33:43]  <Yari> Pmchi, thoughts? 
[20:33:50]  <@Bosun> Impericism is hard to enforce in the age of spin.
[20:33:56]  <Olivia_> What about criticism of other political parties when they do stupid crap like Cancun Cruz & the soon to be docu-series on Gym Jordan?
[20:35:28]  <@Bosun> They all do stupid things. If we only attack the GOP or the Trumpers then we look like Dem lites.
[20:35:28]  <pmchi> No thoughts, really. Taking notes on improvements, I can send a second draft with critiques in mind and edits this week if you’d like
[20:35:56]  <Yari> Bosun, I still think we need to post about those things though 
[20:36:10]  <Yari> I think there is also a question of how often 
[20:36:27]  <Yari> Because we need to keep a branding of sorts
[20:37:21]  <Yari> So maybe limiting ourselves to one post/x for each awful thing that happens in the world? 
[20:37:40]  <@Bosun> Yes, but we can do so by taking about clean and fair government, upholding principals of human rights and justice for all. 
[20:38:31]  <pmchi> Bosun:, was there anything in particular you wanted me to remove from the initial draft for the second one?
[20:38:47]  <@Bosun> Senator x is a selfish bozo. Well that will always be true, just redefine the x.
[20:39:15]  <Yari> Bosun I'm not saying we do personal attacks 
[20:39:22]  <Yari> Even on senators
[20:39:33]  <Yari> Even selfish bozos
[20:39:37]  <@Bosun> Not Congressmen???
[20:39:50]  <@Bosun> Not Ron Johnson???
[20:39:54]  <Yari> No, you call them on their shit though 
[20:40:33]  <Yari> You say "Ron Johnson has done this thing, which is part of a pattern of bad things (source)" 
[20:40:41]  <Olivia_> So no calling Gym Jordan a rapist enabler of male wrestlers but how George Clooney is making a new series on the Ohio State abuse scandal which stars Gym Jordan?
[20:41:05]  <Yari> Calling someone a rapist is a fact
[20:41:15]  <Yari> Calling someone a bozo is an opinion 
[20:41:21]  <Yari> Difference 
[20:41:37]  <@Bosun> Yes and you can call them out without party or even name. Jordon has ignored rape being done in his own department. 
[20:42:17]  <@Bosun> Noone has shown in court that he is a rapist.
[20:42:24]  <Yari> See, that last sentence there is exactly what I'm talking about. 
[20:42:35]  <Yari> Sorry, the one before that 
[20:42:40]  <Olivia_> Oh I know he hasn't been accused of rape but he allowed it and covered it up.
[20:42:54]  <Yari> "Jordon has ignored rape being done in his own department."
[20:43:08]  <@Bosun> Yes and that is a fact.
[20:43:12]  <Yari> That's the sort of shit I want us to post, if we're going to call out ppl
[20:43:25]  <Yari> With sources 
[20:44:23]  <Yari> Important caveat, I think those posts should be limited to x per unit time or x per unit... Something. 
[20:44:35]  <@Bosun> People have doe dead to rights wrongs, but people also don't listen if the comments sound like party propaganda.
[20:44:43]  <Yari> So that we have a fair balance of callous and posts about the party itself
[20:44:48]  <@Bosun> .. done..
[20:44:54]  <Olivia_> So I can call Trump a serial pedophile if I link to the court documents of when he was due in court December 2016 for raping 12/13-year-olds with Jeffrey Epstein?
[20:44:58]  <Yari> *callouts
[20:45:28]  <Yari> Olivia keep in mind this is my opinion 
[20:45:38]  <Yari> But yes, I would say yes
[20:45:56]  <Yari> So long as it's balanced with other shit going on around the US
[20:46:07]  <Yari> And with the USPP stuff
[20:46:13]  <Olivia_> I can add alleged if it makes it better.
[20:46:31]  <@Bosun> If Joe goes nuts killing people with drones, we should hop on it.
[20:46:37]  <Olivia_> The Gym Jordan case is fact too.
[20:46:46]  <Yari> Bosun absolutely agreed
[20:47:42]  <Yari> Bosun it sounded before like you and I were not in agreement 
[20:47:46]  <Olivia_> If there's a sheet of like 20-30 USPP and policy statements, I can add those throughout the weeks.
[20:47:54]  <Yari> Has that changed? 
[20:48:47]  <Yari> Olivia_ hangon, none of this is in guidelines yet, not even drafts. Do you think it's a good idea to put in draft? 
[20:48:52]  <@Bosun> I am arguing nuance
[20:49:28]  <Yari> Olivia_ remember we are discussing guidelines technically, and not immediate implementation of ideas
[20:49:39]  <Yari> Bosun explain please? 
[20:49:46]  <Olivia_> About personal opinions?  Bosun knows what I tweet on my own account I assume wouldn't be accepted on the USPP account.  lol
[20:50:10]  <@Bosun> yes.
[20:50:27]  <Olivia_> The few I have I heavily censored myself and rewrote tweets that were tame by my standards.
[20:51:03]  <@Bosun> This is a policy document.
[20:51:33]  <Olivia_> Maybe a section on personal opinions on what's allowed.
[20:52:32]  <@Bosun> Mitch - I will scribble on your start and send it back out - make me deadline tomorrow.
[20:53:05]  <pmchi> You got it
[20:53:06]  <@Bosun> Personal opinion is allowed.
[20:53:27]  <@Bosun> We will enevidable disagree.
[20:53:52]  <Olivia_> Many times I retweet other people's personal opinions so it saves me cursing up a tantrum.
[20:54:43]  <@Bosun> yes, and you can change your mind.
[20:54:52]  <Olivia_> Trump is already making a comeback.  sigh
[20:55:22]  <Olivia_> You want tantrums?
[20:55:26]  <@Bosun> Party discipline cannot be absolute in and anti authoritarian party.
[20:55:42]  <Yari> Olivia_, if Twitter management is detrimental to mental health, we can delegate. 
[20:56:08]  <Olivia_> it's my therapy.  lol
[20:56:23]  <@Bosun> I will ask my cats to do it then, they only care if it smells like fish.
[20:56:43]  <Yari> Okay back on topic then
[20:56:52]  <@Bosun> :-)
[20:57:02]  <Olivia_> What about #VotePirate for interactions being retweeted onto USPP?
[20:57:57]  <Yari> What about it? 
[20:58:14]  <Yari> Are you asking if it's a good tag? 
[20:58:37]  <Yari> We should end soon btw
[20:58:53]  <@Bosun> Hmm .... open invites can be a proble. She is saying we retweet #VotePirate posts.
[20:59:27]  <Olivia_> I sent it earlier to the list about making a tweet with a graphic saying they'll be retweeted if using the hashtah like I did with PPI.  I sent a link of example graphics I had used before.  It would engage people to use it and hopefullly volunteer.
[21:00:23]  <Yari> As long as we're screening the retweets, Im all for it
[21:00:31]  <@Bosun> We deal with abusewhen it comesto our door.
[21:01:09]  <@Bosun> I am out of steam for the day and need to call it a night.
[21:01:16]  <Yari> Yes, agreed
[21:01:41]  <Yari> Any pressing matters before we wrap? 
[21:01:46]  <@Bosun> move adjourn
[21:01:48]  <Yari> Pmchi Olivia_ 
[21:01:53]  <Olivia_> !
[21:01:57]  <Yari> Motion on table 
[21:02:14]  <pmchi> Second
[21:02:36]  <Yari> Hearing no objections, we are adjourned 
[21:02:45]  <@Bosun> night all
[21:02:51]  <Olivia_> Goodnight
[21:02:57]  <pmchi> Have a great night everyone
[21:03:03]  <Yari> Bosun could you please post