PNC 10/23/2022

Agenda

Reports

IT

• donation button foundational work is done, just needs some spit shine and a little bit of testing. We are confident it will be finished on Wednesday.

Platform

• nothing to report.

Officers

• secretary's report: since the donation button is going to be finished soon, I will be drafting an email to all our civi contacts.
• swarmcare: Nothing to report.

Discussion

Old Business

• A discussion about the definition of the State Moderator position
• A motion, proposed by CA, to have reports by all officers made a part of the agenda, sent to the secretary or added to the wiki agenda before each meeting.

New Business

• pan-americanism plank (platform)

Attending

• Joseph Onoroski, MAPP, Treasurer, PPI Rep
• Drew Bingaman PA Captain
• Mariah-Lynne, KYPP Secretary
• Rose Klein, CA rep, PNC secretary

Non-Voting

• Anthony Jay, IN, PNC chair
• Benjamin McCrae, NJ
• Miles W, Pirate Party Aus
• Ethan Osborne KY Captain

Summary

Meeting called to order at 9:05pm EST.

New Business

Meeting adjourned at pm EST.

Minutes

Record of the meeting

21:05:13 <Wodensday> Calling the meeting to order at 9:05 Eastern time.
<Wodensday> IDs?
<Wodensday> Anthony Jay, IN, PNC chair
<Keljar> Benjamin McCrae, NJ
<Joe> Joseph Onoroski, MAPP, Treasurer, PPI Rep
<DreadPirateDrew> Drew Bingaman PA Captain.
<Mariah-Lynne> Mariah-Lynne, KYPP Secretary
<yari> Rose Klein, CA rep, PNC secretary
<Oz> Ethan Osborne KY Captain 
<MilesW_ppau> Miles W, Pirate Party Aus
<yari> yay Miles!
<Wodensday> Woo! Miles!
<Wodensday> Good enough for me
<Oz> Howdy Miles
<Wodensday> Here is the agenda again: https://wiki.uspirates.org/w/index.php?title=PNC_10/23/2022
<papegaai> Title: PNC 10/23/2022 - United States Pirate Party (at wiki.uspirates.org)
<Wodensday> I am going to start with officer reports.
<Wodensday> Secretary?
<yari> since the donation button is going to be finished soon, I will be drafting an email to all our civi contacts
<yari> nothing to report from this week
<Wodensday> Rad.
<Wodensday> Treasury?
<Joe> Nothing to report. 
<Joe> I do owe the FEC a call still.
<Wodensday> Sounds good.
<yari> about?
<Joe> Running candidates 
<yari> ah, makes sense
<yari> thank you
<DreadPirateDrew> I think we need 3 federal candidates for recognition
<Wodensday> I am debating whether or not I should mention something here
< That's one lol
<Joe> Now you have us in suspense AJ
<Wodensday> At this time, we don't do president.
<Wodensday> I'll see if the other reports go quick
<Keljar> Might as well now wodensday, you got everyone's attention 
<Wodensday> Fair
<Wodensday> Committees - It?
<Wodensday> Anything to elaborate on?
<yari> donation button foundational work is done, just needs some spit shine and a little bit of testing. We are confident it will be finished on Wednesday.
<yari> nothing else to elaborate on
<Wodensday> Excellent, thank you.
<DreadPirateDrew> I have a report from a meeting yesterday.
<Wodensday> No report for platform, outreach is similar.
<Keljar> Speaking of outreach you never added me to their chat
<Wodensday> Maybe there is something for outreach? I don't know, I was not in an unaltered state of mind the entirety of last week
<Joe> I'll be your vice-president. Keljar
<Wodensday> Shoot, will fix
<Wodensday> Let's hear from some reports that aren;t listed. Drew?
<DreadPirateDrew> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EhFjpZ3WyR4W1nwTZLnZKWxIV5x1Ihcr1BoCdHApTWs/edit
<papegaai> Title: Northeastern Mini Conference Full Breakdown - Google Documenten (at docs.google.com)
<Keljar> Thanks Joe we will need to chat more soon
<DreadPirateDrew> This is the link to the agenda and notes from the Coalition of American (Third, now Minor) parties
<Wodensday> Oh shoot
<Wodensday> I did not know this happened
<DreadPirateDrew> I met with representatives from the Keystone party, The Stair Party and Reform Party yesterday in person as a first step in collaboration.
<yari> yeah hangon why were we not informed of this?
<yari> I mean I'm glad it happened
<Wodensday> Northeastern thing it looks like
<Keljar> That's great news Drew
<yari> and that you were there as well
<Wodensday> So, regional casual hangout. WOuld have loved to have seen if MA could have gone though
<yari> ^
<DreadPirateDrew> Yeah a northeast proof of concept essentially
<Wodensday> Ah well, delegation is a good thing.
<Joe> Hmm, MA is northeast too
<Wodensday> I will be asking you and alex about how it went!
<Joe> And this is the first I heard of it.
<Joe> Must not be on the radar. 
<DreadPirateDrew> I think next year it will be more notice and probably a bigger scope. 
<Wodensday> We need a better internal comms system
<Wodensday> But I think we know that
<DreadPirateDrew> IMO I think the best thing that came out is that the name of the Coalition is now CAMP with a tent logo
<yari> agreed wodensday
<Wodensday> I like it
<DreadPirateDrew> Instead of CAT P
<NomadOfNorad> Cute! :D
<yari> that is a good name
<NomadOfNorad> Yes, it is
<Keljar> Lol cat pee
<Keljar> Camp is way better
<DreadPirateDrew> Big tent and all. with the CAMP logo
<Wodensday> Any other sort of report?
<Wodensday> From any board member
< then again, some kids are brighter and more insightful than some of today's adults.
< then again, some kids are brighter and more insightful than some of today's adults.
<Joe> Yes
<Joe> Yes
<Joe> I have an additional report
<---- kid at heart
<Wodensday> Go for it Joe
<Joe> Tuesday at 5am is another PPI meeting 
<yari> ooooo
<Wodensday> Understood, can we get people to contact you if theyw ant to observe?
<Joe> Also, MAPP is about to apply for observer status.
<Joe> Their meetings are very orderly but I have not gleaned much that can be useful to us atm.
<Joe> I don't want to commit to anything before we are ready to either.
<Wodensday> I gotcha. We're making good time, can I drop a half-report, half-discussion topic in here? Asking for consent of the board
<DreadPirateDrew> no objection
<yari> consent
<yari> topic?
<Wodensday> Next meeting. I think we need to take a second to talk about our apparatus for public comment on video meetings.
<yari> can you elaborate?
<Wodensday> If we do the chair proposal I have two people who wanted to know so they could give their opinions
<Keljar> Instead of YouTube?
<Wodensday> So I'm asking how we want to do that
<yari> oh, gotcha
<yari> the thing we've been putting off working on for a while
<yari> because we don't have a clean solution
<Oz> Sorry server froze on me
<Wodensday> It's Liz and Alex, so I figured we would just have them on, but it would be unfair to not have a protocol if someone else just from the general community wanted to speak on camera
<Keljar> I don't understand the problem?
<Wodensday> For or against
<Keljar> Oh now I understand 
<DreadPirateDrew> This would be more of a webinar type setup
<Wodensday> I don't want to give that option to people who can be on role call any time and tell a community member that if they have an opin ion on this they just can;t be there y'knoq?
<Keljar> Could we do some pirate town halls for that instead of during the board meetings?
<yari> to continue to clarify: if anyone wants to comment using the same method as the PNC members during an IRC meeting, that is easy and is already integrated into the meeting protocol. This is not the case for Youtube/Jitsi meetings meetings.
<Wodensday> Yes
<Joe> We could do BBB or Zoom
<yari> hang on
<Wodensday> I don't even think anyone else non-board is invested in the proposal, it just feels gross to not give them an option
<yari> I don't object to doing town halls for this, because that is objectively more democratic
<yari> my question is:
<Keljar> Yeah I've kinda wanted to join in on the vid conferences but I don't feel like I should since so far I'm only a spectator 
<yari> why this proposal specifically, and if town halls are the answer for this one, then why not every meeting?
<Wodensday> This proposal just because I have two people who want to show up already and I don't want us to give them special priority
<Keljar> You shouldn't clutter the board meeting for official business with possible rowdy town halls. It will get severely jumbled
<Keljar> Imo
<Wodensday> Should we have a town hall before?
<Mariah-Lynne> How about Telegram where only speakers are on video, and everyone else on text. Telegram also auto archives its meetings. The text box on Telegram is bigger than Jitsi, the convo on Telegram stays still instead of Jitsi that gets auto sent to the bottom with every new comment in the text chat.
<yari> Mariah we already shot down telegram as an option because we have an established crown on youtube
<Keljar> Keeping them separate would be better but def have a possibly weekly town hall scheduled. Once I get into outreach I'll help work on that
<yari> *crowd
<Wodensday> Maybe this is a can of worms we should open later, I just feel weird about where next week's meeting in particular might head
<yari> No, this is important
<yari> Suggestion: 
<yari> What if bylaws changes were only able to be introduced at town halls?
<Keljar> Yes this is important, it was a good topic to bring up because I've been wondering the same thing
<yari> I mean, this can't be just a thing that happens on a whim
<Wodensday> I like that
<Joe> Unfortunately, whims do happen 
<Wodensday> Though I also think they should happen over video
<Wodensday> So we need video town halls
<yari> Bascically, I'm asking: what is the formula for when a meeting is a town hall or when a meeting is a regular jitsi/youtube meeting
<NomadOfNorad> Someone holds up a sign saying "Town Hall meeting"? :)
<yari> Joe, true - but if it's just whim then it is open to the failings of the person who has the power to call that shot
<Wodensday> What's the future of town halls, though? Because as soon as we figure out how to do them better than IRC I am assuming text is out of here
<Keljar> Yeah, probably best to set public town halls on a different day of the week
<Wodensday> Temporary fix - we allow for a block of public comment before business on Sunday, and get the names of everyone who wants to speak
<Wodensday> And fix them the link
<Keljar> Say Wednesday, where people could suggest things there and on Sunday during the weekly board meetings can go over things discussed in the town halls
<Wodensday> Though, if we only have two that might feel like overkill
<Joe> Hmmm
<Keljar> Oh woden that is also a good idea
<Wodensday> You know what? Let's think about this but do Sunday as normal.
<yari> why?
<Joe> Instead could we just use discord since it's already established?
<Wodensday> Throw it out there that anyone with an interest in the proposal can be there
<Wodensday> If we have five, we have five But there is no way we will have 10
<yari> Wodensday you seem to be going back on your idea but I like your idea
<Keljar> Joe has a good point there, can't we just discord chat?
<yari> stick to your ideas if you think they
<yari> are useful
<Wodensday> Okay, let;s explore it
<Wodensday> Discord chat sounds terrible for something so important
<Mariah-Lynne> Can Discord be streamed to Youtube?
<Wodensday> With prowess I do not have
<Wodensday> Wait
<Joe> It can.
<yari> discord can be streamed to youtube, yes
<Wodensday> You don;t mean text, my apologirs
<Keljar> Oh yeah it wouldn't be public. Good point. 
<Joe> Just use a screen capture
<Wodensday> Let's do discord then, actually
<yari> discord text can be streamed to youtube as well
<Wodensday> A full suite of mod features we know how to use
<Wodensday> Discord voice/video
<Keljar> Oh nice. I don't know much about how discord works still
<Wodensday> With a public comment section
<Wodensday> How's that?
<yari> wait so okay can we make an actual motion out of this
<yari> please
<yari> instead of just chair's privilage
<Wodensday> Yes
<yari> is the suggestion to have a comment time before the meeting on Sunday?
<yari> and to have that comment period on discord?
<Mariah-Lynne> Oh wow I had no idea Discord could be streamed. I knew it didn't save archives.
<Wodensday> Yes
<NomadOfNorad> Discord does have a streaming-video mode, yes.
<Joe> I prefer xsplit but if your mac then OBS works better. 
<Mariah-Lynne> That's why I kept bringing up Telegram. With Discord, it already offers the text option too.
<Wodensday> Do we have a motion?
<yari> working on it
<Wodensday> Cool
<Keljar> So is this a motion to establish town halls for anyone to come speak at?
<yari> Motion to include a public comment period on discord as part of the official record included with the meeting next week, where the comment period is held beginning at least an hour before the regular meeting, and is moderated by two appointees of the PNC, and that any member of the public at the comment period may request the ability to be a part of the streamed video meeting that follows. 
<Keljar> Ooo nice well worded
<Joe> Def props on the wording Yari. 2nd the motion.
<yari> thank you
<Wodensday> I like that last part.
<Wodensday> Motioned and seconded
<Wodensday> Discussion and debate?
<yari> would love any suggestions or edits
<yari> anyone hankering for this to become a regular thing?
<Keljar> Looks good to me. I think you summed it up nicely, I have no other comments or suggestions 
<DreadPirateDrew> Why not just have a discord channel running as our feedback mechanism for livestreams?
<yari> drew that is an excellent idea
<Wodensday> How would we implement that in a conceptually different way than YouTube chat?
<yari> I will just make that channel right now, actually
<DreadPirateDrew> because we can all interact there too. And we can post chat things there instead of inside Jitsi
<Keljar> Pirate town hall channel?
<Joe> Can we call it general assembly?
<Keljar> That sounds nicer
<DreadPirateDrew> Pirate Council Channel
<NomadOfNorad> general assembly, yeah that sounds like a neat name.
<Keljar> Pirate Keel Hall~
<Wodensday> It's not really a general assembly, though
<Keljar> Jk
<NomadOfNorad> or maybe just Council Meeting?
<Wodensday> That's more of an alternate name for a convention, to my understanding
<Keljar> It's not the council tho it's a town hall
<Wodensday> ...Let's not worry about the name
<Keljar> Yari making it as we speak so they probably picking a name XD
<yari> I just did pirate town hall, but I like general assembly too
<yari> eh
<Joe> Actually, Drew's name is more fit for purpose. 
<Wodensday> That made, can we vote for why it exists? 
<yari> call the question
<Wodensday> We're going to go ahead and call it. All in favor?
<Keljar> To give voice to the voiceless (sorry being poetic)
<NomadOfNorad> Pirate Council works, yeah
<yari> aye
<Joe> Aye
<DreadPirateDrew> Aye, seems a solid solution for now
<Keljar> Aye
<Wodensday> KY?
<Mariah-Lynne> aye
<Wodensday> Motion passes, solution made.
<yari> can we move on to old business?
<yari> lol
<Keljar> Huzzah consensus *throws confetti*
<Wodensday> Yes, that would be good
<Wodensday> Next is a discussion on the definition of the state moderator position
<Wodensday> Who wanted to speak on that to begin?
<yari> It was a bunch of us a while ago
<yari> I think it started with Joe actually
<Wodensday> Okay, how do we want to give this item form then? Joe?
<yari> but the basic idea as I recall:
<Joe> Ideally, I would like to see this position as someone to moderate differences between the states. 
<Oz> Aye lol
<yari> yeah
<yari> joe beat me to it
<Keljar> Differences as in policy?
<Oz> Sorry my server keeps freezing 
<yari> we need to dicuss what this officer even does so that we can talk about recruiting ppl to it
<Joe> For conflict resolution and being the official source of state resources and support.
<Wodensday> I think the conflict was whether or not it should be that or a more general moderator that helps head the judiciary 
<Wodensday> Because we do need a body like that, we can't keep solving conflicts without one
<yari> what judiciary?
<yari> like... on discord?
<Wodensday> Exactly, we don't really have any general, multi-purpose conflict resolution faculties 
<Keljar> May I ask what conflicts occured to bring this up?
<yari> wodensday disagree, we just haven't fully implemented the conflict resolution faculties re: the discord structure yet
<DreadPirateDrew> I would suggest NOT having a standing Judicial Committee, It can be abused (have seen it abused)
<yari> https://wiki.uspirates.org/w/index.php?title=Discord_Rules
<papegaai> Title: Discord Rules - United States Pirate Party (at wiki.uspirates.org)
<yari> scroll down
<DreadPirateDrew> Rather Judicial committee created when the need arises.
<yari> agreed with drew on this point, actually
<Wodensday> We absolutely need a way to handle conflict beyond discord mods
<Joe> This is less for judicial and more ceremonial
<yari> Joe why have a ceremonial position
<yari> we are pirates
<Joe> The function of which would be more state support. 
<Keljar> Oh this is about discord mods, I was like.....wtf is going on. I missed something 
<Wodensday> And if that is is a way to create a temporary judicial committee, I am totally for that. Though, that's slightly besides the point. What I'm hearing is that state moderator is not that.
<Wodensday> And I think that is what we wanted to fidn out
<DreadPirateDrew> Moderator should be first go to and should handle bringing tougher issues to the PNC
<yari> drew I like that
<yari> Joe is that what you mean by support?
<yari> sort of... bridging the gap in terms of concerns between the PNC and states?
<Joe> Yes, and also providing resources to states as needed.
<yari> define resources
<Keljar> Things they will need to grow I think
<Wodensday> Personally, I thought this position was primarily propped up by its ability to serve as that temporary judiciary, or head it
<Wodensday> If it is strictly a state thing, I feel that may be too narrow
<DreadPirateDrew> It could go like this. Issues arrise, first go to the moderator to see if there can be a resolution, if not satisfactory, to the PNC and if either party still isn't satisfied, PNC creates Judicial committee for final ruling, Obviously keeping the members of the JC as neutral as possible
<Wodensday> Actually, to cause further chaos - we are making the PNC do too much
<Joe> Just to maximize growth would be good for me
<Wodensday> I don't see how we could keep up with all complicated (most) conflict resolution 
<Joe> With minimal issues and no hurt feelings.
<Joe> Again, Drew slays it. Well put.
<Wodensday> So Joe, can you talk more about why we have it? To get us on the right track
<yari> Joe, do you like Drew's proposal then?
<Joe> I do. I also like Keljar point too.
<Keljar> Yeah I was gonna say we really need to make a starter pack for new states to have to make it easier for them to start.
<yari> I think resolving conflicts between members and the pnc can be much the same as giving resources, at the end of the day
<yari> Keljar that is outreach, and they are working on it
<Joe> We can keep it simple. I just want to sidestep some of the issues we already have had with just the Discord already. 
<Keljar> Yeah which is why I'm trying to join outreach. I figured this wasn't the right time
<Keljar> So people fighting on the discord is the problem
<Wodensday> Wait, are you not even in the discord channel?
<Joe> And that way mitigate issues before we lose key members.
<Wodensday> Go to role select for me real quick
<Wodensday> Try to join outreach
<Keljar> I gotta back out of the chat I'm on my phone one moment
<Wodensday> Joe - it sounds like you're proposing a more general top level judiciary or HR that can help guide restorative justice efforts
<yari> I don't think that's what I'm hearing
<Wodensday> Which is slightly different than the way the role is currently defined, but what I personally think it could be
<Wodensday> I could be projecting
<yari> I'm hearing exactly what Drew proposed, and then something that I don't fully yet understand about resources which frankly feels like it should be under a different committee
<Keljar> Can we do that after meeting woden?
<yari> agreed with Joe that a moderator's role can be helpful in mitigating many of the issues we've had previously
<Wodensday> I can give you the role right now, Keljar
<yari> I just don't personally see what that has to do with giving resources to states, and I know that as we grow bigger, we just won't need that extra role for the moderator
<Keljar> Yeah I couldn't figure out how to select a roll. Just bare with my lack of discord knowledge 
<Wodensday> No worries
<Wodensday> You're in
<Joe> Nah, mostly what you do with CiviCRM and giving them lessons on how to do things.
<Wodensday> So what's our consensus?
<Joe> @ yari
<yari> Oh
<yari> ohhhhhh huh
<Wodensday> That kinda sounds like Swarmcare, no?
<Wodensday> That is how pmchi spends most of his days
<yari> that makes a bit more sense to me actually
<Keljar> Thank you Wodensday 
<yari> no, pmchi doesn't touch civi
<Wodensday> He could, and it wouldn't be too far from the lessons on how to do things part
<Joe> Basically figured this would be a friendly helpful person than a angry one.
<Wodensday> Which he does do
<Wodensday> Joe ?
<yari> I mean, I think the core of the role seems to be something we agree on
<Joe> Aye
<yari> it's the extra stuff that is... a little bit different perhaps
<yari> and I think that can even just depend on the person in that role
<Wodensday> A little confused by the last sentence 
<Wodensday> Who's angry? Sorry, not following along well
<Joe> We don't have to do make this overly complicated, call the question. 
<Wodensday> Surely this isn't about Mitch.
<yari> no
<yari> it's not
<Joe> Nope
<yari> no accusations were thrown
<Wodensday> I'm so confused 
<yari> and there is no question to call Joe
<yari> Wodensday, to clarify
<Joe> O, sorry
<Wodensday> Yeah, we don't have a proposal.
<yari> Basically figured this would be a friendly helpful person rather than a angry one.
<Wodensday> Okay, I think I get it.
<yari> is what the sentence what supposed to say
<Wodensday> Sorry, was just lost
<yari> and I'm saying that the core of all of our ideas has still been the same as what Drew said:
<Wodensday> Where are we going with this?
<yari> It could go like this. Issues arrise, first go to the moderator to see if there can be a resolution, if not satisfactory, to the PNC and if either party still isn't satisfied, PNC creates Judicial committee for final ruling, Obviously keeping the members of the JC as neutral as possible
<yari> ^
<yari> what drew said
<Joe> ^
<yari> I don't know that this needs to be a motion, since this isn't something that needs to be formalized
<Wodensday> Which issues?
<Joe> Any that arise
<Oz> Sounds good to me 
<yari> conflicts between states/members, etc
<Wodensday> Okay.
<Wodensday> Have we clarified effectively?
<Wodensday> I don't feel like we have, but I am super out of it today so it could jsut be me
<yari> I would simply propose that when recruiting a state moderator, we use the model above instead of any others
<Keljar> In short. A nice mod to calm arguments when they arise. 
<yari> I don't think that needs a motion, but is something to keep in mind
<yari> pretty much
<Wodensday> Okay, excellent.
<yari> and that officer can then do whatever else they have the time and energy to do to help the PNC, as they so choose
<Joe> Pretty much the person in charge of the discord server.
<Joe> ^.^
<yari> depends - eventually, that role will likely change
<yari> motion to adjourn
<Joe> 2nd
<Wodensday> All in favor?
<Joe> Aye
<DreadPirateDrew> Aye
<yari> aye
<Oz> Aye
<Mariah-Lynne> Aye
<Keljar> Yeah shouldn't the admins just handle that normally? I know this may be a dumb question but why need an entirely new position?
<Joe> There is history that I would prefer to leave as history.
22:16:49 <Wodensday> Adjourned.