PNC 5/22/13

::PNC Meeting Agenda::

--- 05/22/2013 21:00h EDT ---

IRC: irc.pirateirc.net

Room: #pnc

Wiki: http://uspirates.org/wiki/PNC_5/22/13

Minutes

• Reports given (see below)

• Discussion of policy
  • Education reform
  • National HSISP
    • "HSISP for all!"

• Motion to allow observers to speak
  • Motion passed

• Anti-DMCA policy

• Copyright: reform v. abolishment

• Motion to discuss HSISP
  • Motion passed
• Discussion of HSISP

• Motion to postpone discussion of HSISP to next meeting and instead discuss Copyright
  • Motion passed
• Informal survey of Copyright views by PNC
  • Most prefer reform instead of abolishment
• Lessen the copyright's duration to 20 years
• Get rid of persistence of copyright after holder's death
• Possibly make the signing over of Copyrights illegal

• Motion to adjourn meeting
  • Motion passed

1 - ATTENDEES

1.1 - Members of the PNC

• Attending
  • Jeff Talada, WA Representative
  • Lucia Fiero, MA Representative
  • Kyle DeVore, OR Representative
  • Bradley Hall, FL Chair
  • Steven Smith, FL Representative
  • Daniel Gorski, NY Representative

• Excused

• Unexcused

• Probation

1.2 - At Large Members of the PNC

• Benjamin Sauerhaft - PA
• Nick - MD

1.3 - Officers of the PNC

• Lindsay-Anne Brunner - Captain
• Caleb Langeslag - First Officer
• Daniel Gorski - Quartermaster

2 - PROCEEDINGS

• Meeting called to order at: 21:15 EDT
• Meeting chaired by Lindsay-Anne Brunner
• Secretary for this meeting is Daniel Gorski
• Quorum is established: 5 out of 8 Members present
• Logging Enabled: Yes

3 - Review of previous minutes

http://uspirates.org/wiki/PNC_5/8/13

4 - REPORTS

Washington

• Jeff's experiences getting on the ballot
  • JeffreyTalada.com
• Call for help with promotion
• Shutting down non-profit/PAC dead-end

4.1 - Short Report From Committees

IT Committee

• Next IT meeting will be Tuesday, May 28, at 9pm Eastern, 8pm Central, 7pm Mountain, 6pm Pacific
• Discussion will be regarding choosing a CRM, and creating a listing system for what people/parties need (todo list, help wanted)

5 - Agenda Items

• Policy development and adoption for the national platform:
  • Start with general over-arching platform suggestions put forth by the attendees to give a framework from which the state parties can base their own platforms (if not already established).
• Discussion and debate of said suggestions.
• Adoption of policy to be determined by PNC after deliberation.

- AOB -

• Ideas for next meeting brought up, including Civil Rights, Native Rights, and Smartphone Unlocking.

• Next meeting: 2013-6-5 21:00 EDT
• Meeting closed: 23:41 EDT

- Logs of the Meeting -

May 22 21:15:10 <kusanagi>        so, to start.. Talada, you have a report about getting on the ballot that you'd like to share?
May 22 21:15:46 <Talada>        yeah
May 22 21:16:02 <Talada>        so starting off
May 22 21:16:09 <Talada>        we're shutting down our non-profit/PAC, it was a useless waste of time, energy, and money
May 22 21:16:31 <Talada>        and after continually hitting walls, I've determined the only way to generate interest was to run for office or run an initiative
May 22 21:16:51 <Talada>        I did some initial research to determine what it would take to get on the ballot for city council as I figured it would be easiest and most likely to succeed of all possible races. I only needed 198 valid registered voter signatures, and the elections committee suggested I get 20% extra. So I went door-to-door and got 234 signatures. It took about 23 hours for a rate of about 10 signatures per hour. My wife got 6 from co-workers. It would'
May 22 21:17:06 <Talada>         you have to.
May 22 21:17:21 <Talada>        Now that I'm on the ballot, suddenly there's interest. My fellow local Pirates have met several times already for "work parties" to get some ideas down, figure out what needs to be done to win the primary in August, and fill out a questionnaire (definitely glad I had there help on that) for a candidate ratings group.
May 22 21:17:36 <kusanagi>        Awesome!
May 22 21:17:48 <narr>        Congratulations on your progress.
May 22 21:17:49 <Bluestreak>        Yes it is.
May 22 21:17:55 <Talada>        let you finish reading that
May 22 21:18:13 <Talada>        I'll need to come up with a voter's guide description (200 words) that will go out to every voter in Bellevue. I'm setting up meetings with friends to get myself up to speed on local issues and how to work social media for maximum effectiveness. I'm lucky to be friends with a lot of Occupiers who can help me out.
May 22 21:18:31 <Bluestreak>        City Council is a great race for a small party
May 22 21:18:55 <Talada>        Things I could use help with (can be done long distance):
May 22 21:19:01 <Talada>        Press releasing, how?
May 22 21:19:08 <Talada>        Opponent research
May 22 21:19:15 <Talada>        Cheap propaganda materials
May 22 21:19:25 <Talada>        Friend me on FB (right now!)
May 22 21:19:32 <Talada>        Spread the word, pimp me out guys
May 22 21:19:40 <Talada>        More ideas (http://sdrv.ms/16NtGWp)
May 22 21:19:50 <kusanagi>        Press releases are relatively easy
May 22 21:19:59 <Talada>        We're really just figuring this out as we go. I didn't know the issues or anything, just what people were telling me as I gathered sigs.
May 22 21:20:00 <kusanagi>        Do you have a site?
May 22 21:20:08 <Talada>        JeffreyTalada.com
May 22 21:20:25 <Bluestreak>        Can he send his requests to the SAB list, too?
May 22 21:20:46 <kusanagi>        You should send it to the SAB list.
May 22 21:20:54 <kusanagi>        Absolutely!
May 22 21:20:57 <Talada>        that link will take you to a to do list that anyone can edit, be careful and don't delete stuff
May 22 21:21:09 <Talada>        sure thing
May 22 21:21:31 <Bluestreak>        Bellvue, New York?
May 22 21:21:32 <Talada>        My inspiration was a lobbying experience where I was told, "The representatives don't know the issues until someone tells them."
May 22 21:21:38 <Talada>        Bellevue, WA
May 22 21:21:40 <Bluestreak>        lol
May 22 21:21:53 <Bluestreak>        Oops sorry
May 22 21:22:04 <Bluestreak>        I will be paying loser attention now
May 22 21:22:11 <Bluestreak>        closer!
May 22 21:22:22 <Talada>        ok, now for the USPP
May 22 21:22:31 <Talada>         My recommendation for the USPP is that we actively seek out Pirates willing to run. Like bug states to find someone. Fucking nag if you have to! If they absolutely can't find anyone willing to run, find an initiative, GMO labelling or something. Something that can give people something to do, canvass, poster, w/e.
May 22 21:22:45 <kusanagi>        Talada: this was something I was planning on
May 22 21:22:49 <Talada>        and If you guys haven't read Swarmwise by Rick Falkvinge, wtf are you doing? Go read it.
May 22 21:23:09 <Rush>        link
May 22 21:23:21 <Talada>        give me a minute
May 22 21:23:34 <Talada>        but that's what I wanted to present
May 22 21:23:39 <narr>        The entire book is coming out in a couple of weeks.
May 22 21:23:44 <Bluestreak>        http://falkvinge.net/2011/08/01/swarmwise-what-is-a-swarm/
May 22 21:23:53 <narr>        The first few chapters are available for pre-read.
May 22 21:24:18 <Bluestreak>        e-book?
May 22 21:24:23 <Bluestreak>        or on liine?
May 22 21:24:26 <Talada>        I even put a copy in the USPP library
May 22 21:24:33 <Talada>        it's Falkvinge's blog
May 22 21:24:44 <Talada>        he will publish the book this summer
May 22 21:24:56 <Rush>        I def need to check out the library, haven't been there in a while, thanks again for putting that up
May 22 21:25:20 <Talada>        I guess, any questions?
May 22 21:25:48 <narr>        Online for pre-read.
May 22 21:26:00 <narr>        All kinds of media for the full thing.
May 22 21:26:00 <Bluestreak>        link?
May 22 21:26:06 <kusanagi>        It's impressive, and I honeslty wish you the best of luck.
May 22 21:26:21 <narr>        http://falkvinge.net/2013/02/14/swarmwise-the-tactical-manual-to-changing-the-world-chapter-one/
May 22 21:26:23 <kusanagi>        I'd like for you to let me know when you get up new PRs, actually.
May 22 21:26:35 <Talada>        PRs?
May 22 21:26:40 <kusanagi>        Press releases
May 22 21:26:45 <Bluestreak>        ty
May 22 21:27:01 <Talada>        oh Zac wrote one for me, finding the link
May 22 21:28:00 <Talada>        crap, I'm also having wordpress issues and can't access my own site -__-b it's the most recent press release on the blogs page of JeffreyTalada.com
May 22 21:28:12 <kusanagi>        because, Jeff, being the first Pirate ON the ballot in the US is kind of a big deal XD
May 22 21:28:30 <Talada>        no shit, right?
May 22 21:28:31 <kusanagi>        That's okay. I'll toss it over USPP social media tonight
May 22 21:28:59 <Talada>        ideally, it should go to Bellevue local news as well
May 22 21:29:30 <kusanagi>        there may be a local newspaper email or something for submissions... maybe PRWeb too?
May 22 21:29:47 <Talada>        yeah, idk
May 22 21:30:18 <kusanagi>        Send an email with whatever help you need to the SAB. Someone will be able to help.
May 22 21:30:20 <Talada>        Bellevue is also going to be a super difficult win, there is a 97% approval rating of the city
May 22 21:30:29 <Talada>        ok
May 22 21:30:42 <kusanagi>        it's a shot. running in and of itself is a big deal
May 22 21:30:46 <narr>        ^
May 22 21:31:07 <Bluestreak>        Runnng is important
May 22 21:31:07 <Talada>        right, no matter what, we'll win something, knowledge and/or a position
May 22 21:31:28 <kusanagi>        Right.
May 22 21:31:36 <Bluestreak>        We have a candidate too he is going to run for state rep... mostly for the press.
May 22 21:31:39 <Rush>        Not just that: Exposure
May 22 21:31:53 <kusanagi>        Bluestreak: is there an update on that?
May 22 21:32:10 <Talada>        do you guys know what you need to do to get on the ballot?
May 22 21:32:21 <Bluestreak>        He is going to marshal at the Pride Parade with Jamie and me
May 22 21:32:37 <Bluestreak>        He is going to marshal at the Pride Parade with Jamie and me
May 22 21:32:44 <kusanagi>        awesome
May 22 21:32:55 <Bluestreak>        I lost a line there
May 22 21:33:15 <Bluestreak>        My husband and I are going to intorduce him to our club
May 22 21:33:22 <Bluestreak>        we can run a fund raiser there
May 22 21:33:35 <Talada>        read Swarmwise!
May 22 21:33:43 <Bluestreak>        Cant start collecting sigs until Feb
May 22 21:33:50 <Bluestreak>        I totally will
May 22 21:33:54 <Talada>        oh this is for next year
May 22 21:33:57 <Bluestreak>        TY for pointing out to me
May 22 21:34:26 <Bluestreak>        Best we can do. So psyched this kid stepped up
May 22 21:34:42 <kusanagi>        Woo!
May 22 21:34:50 <Talada>        name?
May 22 21:35:01 <kusanagi>        Jeff, not to cut it short, but any final words on this?
May 22 21:35:03 <Bluestreak>        We are trotting hiim out now so he will be known when he starts collecting siigs
May 22 21:35:12 <Bluestreak>        Joe Guertin
May 22 21:35:19 <Talada>        yeah, I'm done
May 22 21:35:26 <Bluestreak>        Looks the part, too, tall good looks
May 22 21:35:34 <Bluestreak>        Sorry back to you!
May 22 21:35:46 <Bluestreak>        We are so far off I have time to help you first
May 22 21:36:01 <Talada>        thanks
May 22 21:36:01 <Bluestreak>        i will do what I can from MA
May 22 21:36:06 <kusanagi>        Aight, to keep things on track
May 22 21:36:19 <kusanagi>        Next, IT
May 22 21:36:28 <kusanagi>        CalebLangeslag: when's the next IT meeting.
May 22 21:37:17 <CalebLangeslag>        Next week!
May 22 21:37:23 <kusanagi>        Date and time?
May 22 21:37:35 <kusanagi>        Because it's going to be publicized... we need the help.
May 22 21:37:40 <CalebLangeslag>        Usual time. Tuesday; 9pm Eastern, 8pm Central, 7pm Mountain, 6pm Pacific
May 22 21:38:08 <kusanagi>        Tues the 28th, 9PM, got it.
May 22 21:38:12 <CalebLangeslag>        Discussion will be regarding choosing a CRM, and also having some 'wanted list'
May 22 21:38:15 <kusanagi>        Any updates on the IT end of things?
May 22 21:38:20 <kusanagi>        lol
May 22 21:38:24 <kusanagi>        just as I ask
May 22 21:38:30 <CalebLangeslag>        wanted list, for what people want, essentially
May 22 21:38:33 <Rush>        any update on Sheats and florida.pirate-party.us's items?
May 22 21:39:16 <CalebLangeslag>        No update on that, I haven't taken action upon that. If you'd like me to go ahead and send off an email now, I can do so
May 22 21:39:46 <CalebLangeslag>        as well as pestering with phone calls, and any means necessary
May 22 21:40:05 <kusanagi>        Yes, you really should.
May 22 21:40:21 <kusanagi>        Because this is needed.
May 22 21:40:44 <kusanagi>        FL wasn't set up on another URL, and what he did is kind of ridiculous
May 22 21:42:27 <CalebLangeslag>        Doesn't quite make sense at the same time. But nonetheless, that's the IT report
May 22 21:43:04 <kusanagi>        gotcha, thanks caleb
May 22 21:43:14 <kusanagi>        onwaaaard
May 22 21:43:40 <kusanagi>        Onto the agenda, policy
May 22 21:44:32 <kusanagi>        USPP needs one, simply put
May 22 21:44:37 *        itspara rolls in late
May 22 21:44:57 <kusanagi>        itspara: identify for the record
May 22 21:45:45 <itspara>        Nick, Observer, Maryland
May 22 21:45:49 <kusanagi>        Full name
May 22 21:46:20 <kusanagi>        I'd like to start off with some suggestions for the PNC to start creating a policy/platform
May 22 21:46:49 <kusanagi>        I'd like to do it without a specialized committee, as well.
May 22 21:46:56 <itspara>        The bylaws don't require observers to state their full name iirc, but that can be discussed via pm is needed
May 22 21:47:53 *        narr has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
May 22 21:47:57 <kusanagi>         Are there any starting suggestions?
May 22 21:47:57 *        narr (~narrenbur@b-90-218-246-285.hsd3.fl.comcast.net) has joined #pnc
May 22 21:48:20 <OyajiVyse>        education
May 22 21:48:27 <Rush>        Indeed
May 22 21:48:28 <narr>        What about education?
May 22 21:49:16 <Rush>        People need to be educated. It would save money if every state used the same kind of textbooks, and if they were open source and weren't full of errors. And if every student was given a Kindle-like device to store ebooks and etextbooks on
May 22 21:49:22 <narr>        Integration of technology, restructuring of curricula, transition into tertiary education?
May 22 21:49:30 <narr>        (Among many, MANY other things.)
May 22 21:49:41 <kusanagi>        It's a start.
May 22 21:50:17 <narr>        One issue with that.
May 22 21:50:20 <OyajiVyse>        yeah, my main thought on that was integration of technology and restructuring of current teaching methods
May 22 21:50:32 <Rush>        The ability for students to progress at their own pace. They finish all the Algebra stuff? Move them to Algebra II, right away, etc
May 22 21:50:33 <narr>        That kind of thing already happens in charter schools, but the focus isn't on the education part.
May 22 21:50:40 <narr>        (Usually.)
May 22 21:50:49 <narr>        It's about the purchase of technology.
May 22 21:50:54 <Rush>        We also need to bring back capital punishment in schools
May 22 21:51:03 <narr>        Wait wha?
May 22 21:51:08 <narr>        We need to execute kids?
May 22 21:51:11 <Bluestreak>        lol
May 22 21:51:16 <kusanagi>        Rush!!!
May 22 21:51:21 <Bluestreak>        I think he means paddle
May 22 21:51:24 <narr>        No, let him speak.
May 22 21:51:30 <Rush>        Sorry, been drinking, corporal
May 22 21:51:31 <Bluestreak>        Corporal punishment?
May 22 21:51:46 <OyajiVyse>        waaaaay different lol
May 22 21:52:00 <Rush>        I never attend one of these meetings without at least a glass of wine
May 22 21:52:07 <kusanagi>        I don't exactly see how that is even remotely Pirate...
May 22 21:52:08 <Bluestreak>        Sorry, have to disagree
May 22 21:52:15 <OyajiVyse>        so we should bring back the nuns with rulers?
May 22 21:52:16 <kusanagi>        the glass of wine though, is
May 22 21:52:23 <narr>        May you explain why you feel the need to use corporal punishment in an academic environment?
May 22 21:52:36 *        passstab (~coplon@xx.pirate) has joined #pnc
May 22 21:52:37 <Rush>        If a Pirate acted up or did something wrong, they were flogged with a cat that had nine tails
May 22 21:52:42 <Bluestreak>        WINE! What a good idea.
May 22 21:52:54 <Bluestreak>        You are joking
May 22 21:53:02 <Bluestreak>        He's kidding folkd
May 22 21:53:06 <Bluestreak>        folks
May 22 21:53:09 <Rush>        cat'o'nine tails or something
May 22 21:53:14 <narr>        Yup.
May 22 21:53:17 <narr>        This guy is trolling.
May 22 21:53:27 <Rush>        Yeah, I probably am trolling
May 22 21:53:40 <kusanagi>        yeah, let's stop with the trolling
May 22 21:53:44 <itspara>        Nick DeSalvio, Maryland, Observer
May 22 21:53:47 <kusanagi>        so, education, that's a good start
May 22 21:54:35 <narr>        Let me start with the question:
May 22 21:54:40 <narr>        What do you think is most broken?
May 22 21:54:58 <OyajiVyse>        honestly, motivation
May 22 21:55:05 <Rush>        Agreed
May 22 21:55:08 <OyajiVyse>        but that's really difficult to gauge objectively
May 22 21:55:44 <Bluestreak>        What is broken about what exactly?
May 22 21:55:44 <narr>        As a kid who was six years old only ten years ago:
May 22 21:55:52 <Rush>        It's not entirely motivation, it's a combination of things
May 22 21:56:02 <OyajiVyse>        Rush, true
May 22 21:56:13 <OyajiVyse>        Bluestreak, Education system
May 22 21:56:24 <narr>        We want to do stuff. Lots of stuff. Including learning.
May 22 21:56:55 <Bluestreak>        What is broken is that the people with the most influence in this world don't want us learning anything useful
May 22 21:57:06 <Rush>        One of the problems in my local school district is the top school board members make loads of money,and then make loads more because companies they own are getting contracts to do things in the schools simply because they own the companies
May 22 21:57:29 <narr>        Oh, yeah.
May 22 21:57:30 <Bluestreak>        Ah, and corruption is also a problem
May 22 21:57:34 <narr>        That's a bone I'd like to pick.
May 22 21:57:35 <itspara>        the problem? whats broken? Everything.
May 22 21:57:43 <Rush>        And then when the results come in, those companies have either done nothing, or the students regressed
May 22 21:58:08 <narr>        School boards: volunteer.
May 22 21:58:33 <Rush>        Education is big on FLPP's list of things to fix, the chair and vice chair are both educators
May 22 21:58:37 <narr>        (Not kidding.)
May 22 21:58:38 <Bluestreak>        I was a teen in the 80's when Reagan slashed federal aid to cities and towns which paid for much of what the towns came up short
May 22 21:58:52 <Rush>        And I plan on running for school board eventually
May 22 21:59:00 <Talada>        one of the things I'm running on is making the council obsolete so that we're more resilient to corruption
May 22 21:59:02 <kusanagi>        you an' me both Rush 
May 22 21:59:10 <Bluestreak>        It devastated the education system. It's all my teachers talked about
May 22 21:59:31 <Bluestreak>        Make your job obsolete. What a Pirate!
May 22 21:59:33 <itspara>        Schools are standardising curriculum, methods, testing, everything. Which means that less students are receiving high potency education. 
May 22 22:00:02 <itspara>        And, they take punishment too seriously, and are corrupt.
May 22 22:00:10 <Rush>        The end goal of most jobs is to become obsolete
May 22 22:00:16 <itspara>        And we can't forget the lack offunding in some schools.
May 22 22:00:21 <Rush>        whether on purpose or not
May 22 22:00:33 <Bluestreak>        Oh, it's on purpose
May 22 22:01:08 <Rush>        The lottery has supposedly pumped loads of money into education. The principal of the elementary school my brothers and I went to told my father, "If the lottery gives money to schools, I've not seen it"
May 22 22:01:58 <Bluestreak>        Policy point
May 22 22:02:07 <Bluestreak>        National HSISP
May 22 22:02:13 <kusanagi>        HSISP?
May 22 22:02:16 <Rush>        HSISP
May 22 22:02:18 <Rush>        ?
May 22 22:02:26 <narr>        HSISP?
May 22 22:02:28 <Bluestreak>        There are parts of the country you cant get HSISP at any price
May 22 22:02:40 <Bluestreak>        High Speed Internet
May 22 22:02:47 <narr>        Ah.
May 22 22:02:55 <Bluestreak>        Service Providers
May 22 22:03:07 <Rush>        My area just recently got that
May 22 22:03:19 <Bluestreak>        Frankly it should be paid for  by the tax payer as the actual internet is.
May 22 22:03:29 <Bluestreak>        JUST NOW? Outrageous.
May 22 22:03:43 <Bluestreak>        I woke up when I got HSISP
May 22 22:03:44 <Rush>        Well, a year and a half or so ago
May 22 22:03:46 <OyajiVyse>        so, you're saying that HSISP should be subsidized?
May 22 22:03:55 <Rush>        It was being put in an area at a time
May 22 22:04:04 <OyajiVyse>        wait, wrong word, sorry
May 22 22:04:05 <OyajiVyse>        lol
May 22 22:04:11 <Bluestreak>        Subsidized? N ationalized!
May 22 22:04:37 <Bluestreak>        It's like the taxpayers have paid for this massive forum
May 22 22:04:54 <Bluestreak>        But ll the access roads re toll roads
May 22 22:05:15 <Bluestreak>        HIGH PRICED toll roads with slow traffic
May 22 22:05:32 <Bluestreak>        National issue? HSISP For all Americans
May 22 22:05:43 <Bluestreak>        Talk about ppl getting an eduaction
May 22 22:06:33 <Bluestreak>        *sips wine*
May 22 22:07:54 <kusanagi>        Slight side-step, but I fully agree. 
May 22 22:08:55 <Bluestreak>        Wanted to stay on education?
May 22 22:09:03 <Bluestreak>        I felt it was related
May 22 22:09:19 <kusanagi>        it is, but i thought the FLers meant more of the actual schools.
May 22 22:09:30 <OyajiVyse>        s'alright, this is a brainstorming session after all
May 22 22:09:37 <kusanagi>        Honestly, that right there "HSISP for all" is perfect.
May 22 22:09:50 <narr>        Want to reword it?
May 22 22:09:59 <narr>        Because I swear, everyone is going to wonder:
May 22 22:10:03 <narr>        HSISP?!
May 22 22:10:04 <Bluestreak>        Say it any way you like
May 22 22:10:05 <kusanagi>        also, we have observers here, and they can't speak until you lovely member-state party reps motion
May 22 22:10:22 <Bluestreak>        Geez new at this.
May 22 22:10:25 <OyajiVyse>        motion to allow observers to speak
May 22 22:10:26 <kusanagi>        it's okay
May 22 22:10:31 <Bluestreak>        Motion to let observers speak
May 22 22:10:36 <kusanagi>        Bluestreak: you'll get the hang of it
May 22 22:10:48 <kusanagi>        Bluestreak: you mean seconding Gorski?
May 22 22:11:06 <Bluestreak>        Uh yeah, that
May 22 22:11:13 <Bluestreak>        2nd
May 22 22:11:39 <Bluestreak>        I just typed it split second slower than Dan
May 22 22:11:41 <OyajiVyse>        all in favor?
May 22 22:12:17 <Bluestreak>        Aye
May 22 22:12:19 <Rush>        what are we favoroing
May 22 22:12:29 <kusanagi>        Rush: nonreps speaking
May 22 22:12:35 <Rush>        aye
May 22 22:12:39 <OyajiVyse>        aye
May 22 22:13:18 <kusanagi>        Talada, MisterSquared 
May 22 22:13:34 <passstab>        benjamin sauerhaft coplon PA observer
May 22 22:13:34 <MisterSquared>        aye
May 22 22:14:05 <kusanagi>        vote called
May 22 22:14:14 <Bluestreak>        Hi Ben!
May 22 22:14:15 <kusanagi>        motion passed, 4 aye, 1 abstain
May 22 22:14:58 <passstab>        i think the reason that most policy efforts have failed is because of mission creep
May 22 22:15:01 <kusanagi>        passstab, itspara and others can speak, after you ID for the record.
May 22 22:15:25 <itspara>        See Above.
May 22 22:15:33 <itspara>        Unless I need to do so again.
May 22 22:15:40 <kusanagi>        you're good
May 22 22:15:45 <itspara>        awesome.
May 22 22:15:50 <passstab>        if we want to pass something we should pick ONE issue
May 22 22:15:51 <itspara>        Umm... Education still?
May 22 22:15:59 <passstab>        oh, sorry
May 22 22:16:04 <passstab>        :P
May 22 22:16:05 <Bluestreak>        Mission creep?
May 22 22:16:14 <kusanagi>        We're working on a general brainstorm right now.
May 22 22:16:16 <itspara>        We need to stop being grade centric. Most important thing.
May 22 22:16:36 <Bluestreak>        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_creep NVM Google
May 22 22:16:37 <passstab>        one issue, i don't care which
May 22 22:16:38 <kusanagi>        We don't even have anything on paper stating we're anti-DMCA nationally
May 22 22:16:49 <itspara>        Second we need to leave curriculum up to a mix of the local level and specific classrooms.
May 22 22:17:09 <itspara>        Third we need to fight corruption (eg. detroit school board)
May 22 22:17:14 <passstab>        IMO copyright is a good place to start
May 22 22:17:34 <itspara>        Fourth, more money for education. ESP Arts and STEM
May 22 22:17:44 <OyajiVyse>        kusanagi, we don't?
May 22 22:17:54 <OyajiVyse>        passstab, reform or abolishment?
May 22 22:18:06 <Bluestreak>        Well, ppl seem set on discussing education. Lets focus on that
May 22 22:18:18 <passstab>        OyajiVyse, that is a question we should settle
May 22 22:18:25 <Bluestreak>        Reform please
May 22 22:18:50 <kusanagi>        not that i can find
May 22 22:18:50 <passstab>        personally i'd prefer the latter, but that is beside the point
May 22 22:18:51 <itspara>        To tie education into copyright, we need to broaden fair use for education to include ANY IP LAWS. Not just copyright.
May 22 22:19:26 <OyajiVyse>        such as?
May 22 22:19:34 <passstab>        can we please agree on one issue we will drill down on?
May 22 22:19:40 <Bluestreak>        FYI textbook copyright paid for my house. Still looking to reform.
May 22 22:19:48 <Bluestreak>        Educatioon!
May 22 22:20:26 <itspara>        lets see what people are most passionate about tonight
May 22 22:20:40 <OyajiVyse>        the winner seems to be education for now
May 22 22:20:47 <Bluestreak>        *waits for others*
May 22 22:21:01 <kusanagi>        I'd like an anti-DMCA policy established.
May 22 22:21:16 <kusanagi>        What Bluestreak said, High speed net for all.
May 22 22:21:33 <Bluestreak>        Well, yes, of course I like that too
May 22 22:21:51 <kusanagi>        And I think it's perfect.
May 22 22:22:12 <kusanagi>        Especially with how things are, the internet is a great equalizer... but only to those who have access.
May 22 22:22:35 <Bluestreak>        Well I can hardly motion to adopt my own idea can I/
May 22 22:22:41 <Bluestreak>        ?
May 22 22:22:42 <kusanagi>        If you lose out on access, there's so much you lose out on, education is one of them
May 22 22:22:49 <Bluestreak>        Exactly
May 22 22:22:51 <kusanagi>        you can
May 22 22:22:59 <Bluestreak>        I so motion
May 22 22:23:11 <kusanagi>        Specify motion
May 22 22:23:13 <OyajiVyse>        could you state your motion clearly please/
May 22 22:23:18 <OyajiVyse>        *?
May 22 22:23:49 <itspara>        ?
May 22 22:23:49 <Bluestreak>        Ahem
May 22 22:24:42 <Bluestreak>        Point of policy for the USPP: Nationalized High Speed Internet for all who can afford electricity and a computer.
May 22 22:24:59 <Bluestreak>        And a place to plug it in
May 22 22:25:40 <Bluestreak>        So motioned.
May 22 22:25:53 <kusanagi>        Any seconds?
May 22 22:26:11 *        kusanagi gives voice to narr
May 22 22:26:52 <kusanagi>        wait, to adopt this or suggest further discussion?
May 22 22:26:52 <OyajiVyse>        is the motion to discuss or to put on our platform as stated?
May 22 22:28:09 <Bluestreak>        Um OK Motion to discuss
May 22 22:28:21 <OyajiVyse>        seconded
May 22 22:28:39 <OyajiVyse>        all in favor?
May 22 22:28:58 <passstab>        aye
May 22 22:29:09 <OyajiVyse>        aye
May 22 22:29:14 <itspara>        aye
May 22 22:29:33 <Bluestreak>        Can I vote on my own motion?
May 22 22:29:37 <kusanagi>        yes ma'm
May 22 22:29:47 <MisterSquared>        aye
May 22 22:29:52 <Bluestreak>        aye
May 22 22:30:00 <kusanagi>        narr, Talada 
May 22 22:30:01 <narr>        aye?
May 22 22:30:03 <narr>        aye
May 22 22:30:12 <narr>        (Was waiting for Rush. Sorry.)
May 22 22:30:23 <Rush>        aye
May 22 22:31:25 <kusanagi>        OyajiVyse: FL votes aye
May 22 22:31:37 <kusanagi>        vote called, tally?
May 22 22:32:41 <OyajiVyse>        6 in favor, motion passed
May 22 22:33:16 <kusanagi>        5.5 in favor
May 22 22:33:24 <kusanagi>        1 abstain
May 22 22:33:27 <Bluestreak>        MOAR WINE!
May 22 22:33:37 <OyajiVyse>        my apologies
May 22 22:33:41 *        Sacha has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
May 22 22:33:44 <kusanagi>        4.5 actually
May 22 22:35:00 <OyajiVyse>        still, motion passed
May 22 22:35:27 <OyajiVyse>        so hsisp for all, but how would that be implemented?
May 22 22:36:24 <Bluestreak>        Commandeer the telecoms!
May 22 22:36:32 <Bluestreak>        Yar!
May 22 22:36:52 <itspara>        Microwave?
May 22 22:37:19 <Bluestreak>        We've paid for the infrastructure ten times over in outrages fees already.
May 22 22:37:27 <passstab>        personally i think this should be handled at a state level
May 22 22:37:36 <Bluestreak>        The airwaves belong to the people.
May 22 22:37:53 <Bluestreak>        The problem with that is: Some states have more money
May 22 22:38:08 <narr>        Including the police, CIA, FBI, NSA, Department of Justice, et. al.
May 22 22:38:16 <Bluestreak>        We arre effected by the voting of the people WITHOUT HSISP
May 22 22:38:37 <Bluestreak>        If their state never gets around to it, it affects us all.
May 22 22:38:54 <Bluestreak>        Some states hve more intitiative
May 22 22:39:06 <Bluestreak>        Some states are already pretty connected, like my state
May 22 22:39:12 <itspara>        I say we leave it up to the native tribes, and we just give them tons of money to make sure it gets done.
May 22 22:39:30 <itspara>        and they get to pocket the excess for their own operations.
May 22 22:39:38 <narr>        Why should natives be held the burden of connecting our country?
May 22 22:39:45 <Bluestreak>        The USPP has no money
May 22 22:39:55 <itspara>        >Not actually serious
May 22 22:39:55 <narr>        We've done enough to them.
May 22 22:39:58 <narr>        Oh
May 22 22:40:00 <Bluestreak>        (much)
May 22 22:40:13 <narr>        (09:53:40 PM) kusanagi: yeah, let's stop with the trolling
May 22 22:40:24 <kusanagi>        ^
May 22 22:40:31 <itspara>        Sorry bout that. 
May 22 22:40:45 <Bluestreak>        NP I like having fun
May 22 22:40:48 <itspara>        The infrastructure should be both state and federal business
May 22 22:40:56 <Bluestreak>        Keeps me awake at 10:40
May 22 22:41:10 <Bluestreak>        Sure, OK, why not?
May 22 22:41:23 <Bluestreak>        It shoulc belong to the taxpayers
May 22 22:41:33 <OyajiVyse>        more fundamental question since you mentioned airwaves: national wired HSISP or national High-Speed Wi-Fi?
May 22 22:41:37 <Bluestreak>        Like we should have single payer health, we should have single payer internet
May 22 22:41:38 <passstab>        but some states have a majority of voters who don't want the government supporting internet
May 22 22:41:52 <passstab>        why should this be forced on them?
May 22 22:41:55 <Bluestreak>        We are way behind other countries in speed and connectivity
May 22 22:42:29 <OyajiVyse>        we are also much bigger than most other countries where that's true
May 22 22:42:35 <Bluestreak>        We can make our policy what we want and encourage voters to come around, right?
May 22 22:42:54 <kusanagi>        Bluestreak: yes, within reason
May 22 22:42:57 <Bluestreak>        There's nothing to it but to do it.
May 22 22:43:13 <kusanagi>        If it's going to take a constitutional amendment, i'd adivse against it
May 22 22:43:24 <Bluestreak>        We built the highway system
May 22 22:43:34 <narr>        For the purposes of national defense.
May 22 22:43:36 <Bluestreak>        No such suggestion
May 22 22:43:48 <narr>        How is faster Internet going to defend the country.
May 22 22:43:50 <narr>        ?
May 22 22:43:57 <Bluestreak>        We can best defend ourselves with an educated, connected populace
May 22 22:44:18 <passstab>        it defends our economy
May 22 22:44:27 <Bluestreak>        Why is national defense so paramount to opening the cash register
May 22 22:44:33 <narr>        Oh, I see the discrepancy.
May 22 22:44:42 <OyajiVyse>        it's one if the three v's of innovation
May 22 22:44:47 <narr>        You guys are including everything that could be defended.
May 22 22:44:47 <Bluestreak>        We have a perception problem coming to us though the commercial media, mostly owned by: TELECOMS!
May 22 22:44:52 <narr>        I'm using Washington's definition.
May 22 22:44:55 <itspara>        side note: perhaps we could also built a private domestic network for things that are sensitive (ie power grid, government services, banks)
May 22 22:45:08 <narr>        National defense in the sense of the defense of the interests of the District of Columbia.
May 22 22:45:11 <narr>        And Arlington.
May 22 22:45:11 *        passstab has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
May 22 22:45:14 <MisterSquared>        sorry to interrupt, but I need to leave in a few minutes
May 22 22:45:16 <Bluestreak>        We can NOT do things Washington's way. Talk about broken
May 22 22:45:27 <narr>        So to rephrase:
May 22 22:45:45 <narr>        How is more available, faster Internet, going to defend Washington's interests?
May 22 22:45:49 <itspara>        also, decisions about the internet should be decided with input from referenda
May 22 22:46:11 <narr>        You have to be able to answer that question when skeptics emerge.
May 22 22:46:28 <Bluestreak>        Sure, sure OK
May 22 22:46:38 <Bluestreak>        You are right about that. 
May 22 22:46:47 <narr>        Who?
May 22 22:46:53 <kusanagi>        ok
May 22 22:47:00 <kusanagi>        guys, you're getting slightly offtrack
May 22 22:47:03 <Bluestreak>        "You have to be able to answer that question when skeptics emerge."
May 22 22:47:12 <itspara>        >skeptics
May 22 22:47:34 <kusanagi>        this is true.
May 22 22:47:36 *        MisterSquared has quit (Quit: Web client closed)
May 22 22:47:42 <itspara>        Yeah... there will be tons of skeptics for anything that any blogger can construe as possibly being socialistic
May 22 22:47:51 <kusanagi>        We're still at quorum, everyone
May 22 22:47:53 <Bluestreak>        We aren't attemptong to defend Washingtn, we are attempting to serve the People.
May 22 22:48:15 <Bluestreak>        Socilism is not a dirty word!
May 22 22:48:24 <itspara>        It isn't
May 22 22:48:31 <Bluestreak>        Again, commercial media problem.
May 22 22:48:47 <OyajiVyse>        still off-track lol
May 22 22:48:48 <itspara>        but people WILL yell socialism as if it were if a bill for this came up
May 22 22:48:57 <kusanagi>        Guys.
May 22 22:48:59 <itspara>        but then again
May 22 22:49:17 <itspara>        we don't really need to be addressing how we present it if we don't even have it as a policy yet
May 22 22:49:23 <kusanagi>        Exactly
May 22 22:49:26 <Bluestreak>        We are always going to be at odds with the commercial media perception of our ideas; SHARE MOVIES? That's stealing. Brought to you by ABC News (Disney)
May 22 22:49:29 <itspara>        let alone discussing as policy
May 22 22:49:43 <itspara>        but do, keep it in mind.
May 22 22:49:50 <itspara>        so people have time to think about it
May 22 22:49:52 <Bluestreak>        Sigh.
May 22 22:49:55 <itspara>        to themselves
May 22 22:50:04 <itspara>        Bluestreak, thats also off topic
May 22 22:50:16 <itspara>        #uspp AND #uspp-social are available for that
May 22 22:50:30 <kusanagi>        yeah.
May 22 22:50:59 <kusanagi>        So, High speed internet for all.
May 22 22:51:05 <Bluestreak>        I thought it directly addressed the concerns raised
May 22 22:51:11 <itspara>        Great idea. 
May 22 22:51:46 <kusanagi>        I'm sure we agree that it's a damn Pirate idea.
May 22 22:51:48 <Bluestreak>        I defer to y'all
May 22 22:51:58 <Bluestreak>        *silence*
May 22 22:52:28 <kusanagi>        Is there any more debate on it other than semantics (wifi or wired)?
May 22 22:52:53 <OyajiVyse>        well, I brought that up in order to discuss the logistics, but we can leave that for another time
May 22 22:53:28 <itspara>        any decisions on said public internet access should be subject to being refereed to  referendum by the people.
May 22 22:53:33 <Rush>        I move to end this meeting before I rage sleep
May 22 22:53:40 <itspara>        Referred. 
May 22 22:53:55 <itspara>        I move to give Rush a monster.
May 22 22:53:56 <kusanagi>        Rush: if narr can stay, you're free to go.
May 22 22:54:06 <narr>        Ya I'm here.
May 22 22:54:28 <Rush>        Okay thanks. I wasn't able to sleep good last night because Narr gave me nightmares
May 22 22:54:36 <narr>        Accidentally.
May 22 22:54:44 <narr>        And you never explained how. But I digress.
May 22 22:54:45 <Rush>        You can have them back
May 22 22:54:56 <kusanagi>        Guys, I don't need to know, but email me all about them and I'll send you to a good therapist
May 22 22:54:58 *        Rush has quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
May 22 22:55:00 <itspara>        I move to put narr in the time out corner after the meeting for giving rush nightmares.
May 22 22:55:04 <kusanagi>        Anyway
May 22 22:55:04 <itspara>        and back on topic
May 22 22:55:42 <kusanagi>        So, we can move to vote on High speed net as policy next week
May 22 22:55:48 <kusanagi>        next meeting
May 22 22:56:00 <Bluestreak>        2nd
May 22 22:56:05 <narr>        Sorry about that. Sounds good.
May 22 22:56:05 <kusanagi>        can't second me
May 22 22:56:06 <itspara>        and then after that would we discuss more potential policy, or close?
May 22 22:56:09 <itspara>        jw
May 22 22:56:20 <kusanagi>        I'd like to you know, cover some copyright stuff.
May 22 22:57:03 <kusanagi>        Get DMCA under that
May 22 22:57:16 <kusanagi>        The recent unlocking bill.. we should support that.
May 22 22:57:17 <itspara>        COPYRIGHT? NO! 
May 22 22:57:24 <itspara>         /sarcasm
May 22 22:57:25 <OyajiVyse>        motion to move HSISP as policy for next meeting and discuss copyright
May 22 22:57:46 <Bluestreak>        Can I 2nd that?
May 22 22:58:04 <kusanagi>        Not yet, it should be better phrased.
May 22 22:58:11 <narr>        You almost did.
May 22 22:58:24 <Bluestreak>        lol I'm out of wine, btw
May 22 22:58:35 <Bluestreak>        (Only had one glass left!
May 22 22:58:52 <kusanagi>        move to vote on adopting hsisp at the next meeting would be valid
May 22 22:59:00 <OyajiVyse>        motion to leave discussion of HSISP as national policy to next week and instead move to the discussion of copyright as pirate policy for this meeting
May 22 22:59:21 <narr>        Second.
May 22 22:59:26 <OyajiVyse>        *next meeting rather
May 22 22:59:43 *        OyajiVyse sighs
May 22 22:59:46 <kusanagi>        lol
May 22 22:59:49 <narr>        Second again?
May 22 22:59:50 <kusanagi>        I did that too
May 22 22:59:54 <OyajiVyse>        motion to leave discussion of HSISP as national policy to next meeting and instead move to the discussion of copyright as pirate policy for this meeting
May 22 22:59:54 <kusanagi>        narr: that's fine
May 22 23:00:22 <OyajiVyse>        all in favor?
May 22 23:00:56 <itspara>        argh
May 22 23:00:59 <itspara>        *aye
May 22 23:01:03 <narr>        aye
May 22 23:01:25 <kusanagi>        Bluestreak, OyajiVyse Talada 
May 22 23:01:28 <OyajiVyse>        aye
May 22 23:01:32 <Bluestreak>        aye
May 22 23:04:32 <kusanagi>        vote called. tally?
May 22 23:04:54 <OyajiVyse>        3.5 in favor, 1 abstain
May 22 23:04:58 <OyajiVyse>        motion passed
May 22 23:06:14 <kusanagi>        yay
May 22 23:06:18 <kusanagi>        so, copyright.
May 22 23:06:27 <kusanagi>        we all agree that it needs to be changed.
May 22 23:06:42 <kusanagi>        just a survey: reform or abolish?
May 22 23:07:06 <Bluestreak>        Reform
May 22 23:07:09 <CalebLangeslag>        Reform
May 22 23:07:10 *        narr wishes to reform American copyright law
May 22 23:07:19 <itspara>        REFORRRMMMM
May 22 23:07:20 <OyajiVyse>        reform
May 22 23:07:30 <narr>        And you, Captain Brunner?
May 22 23:07:48 <kusanagi>        rEFORM
May 22 23:07:59 *        itspara makes joke about failed casing
May 22 23:08:09 <kusanagi>        Abolish is going to be a very difficult grab.
May 22 23:08:10 *        itspara gets heckled 
May 22 23:08:20 *        kusanagi throws a tomato at itspara 
May 22 23:08:27 <itspara>        :o
May 22 23:08:34 <kusanagi>        Anyway
May 22 23:08:50 <kusanagi>        Well, so the abolishers aren't here.
May 22 23:09:02 <kusanagi>        So can't exactly have a debate on that.
May 22 23:09:05 <itspara>        hrmm
May 22 23:09:26 *        Brendan lols from afar.
May 22 23:09:44 *        kusanagi has kicked Brendan from #pnc (Brendan)
May 22 23:09:46 <Bluestreak>        Shorten the legnth
May 22 23:09:55 <Bluestreak>        substantially
May 22 23:10:02 <OyajiVyse>        agreed
May 22 23:10:06 <kusanagi>        Agreed.
May 22 23:10:06 <itspara>        agreed
May 22 23:10:10 <Bluestreak>        end the "after death" bit
May 22 23:10:14 <kusanagi>        yes
May 22 23:10:41 <itspara>        I plan on doing some research on pirates views, idk if it will be done in time for a decision though. Just thought I would mention it.
May 22 23:10:42 <kusanagi>        I was thinking of a term length of about 20 years.. which may be long for the tastes of many here.
May 22 23:10:43 <narr>        All that does is satisfy the greed of large media corporations.
May 22 23:11:00 <Bluestreak>        Perhaps mandate a fairer cut for producers rather than publishers etc?
May 22 23:11:07 <narr>        Anywhere from a decade to two sounds good to me.
May 22 23:11:23 <narr>        But when it comes time to go to the negotiating table, I'll go as far as a quarter century.
May 22 23:11:47 <kusanagi>        Bluestreak: that too
May 22 23:12:00 <kusanagi>        make the signing over of copyright illegal
May 22 23:13:16 <kusanagi>        like how record labels have their artists do
May 22 23:13:19 <Bluestreak>        That's new to me.
May 22 23:13:36 <Bluestreak>        Article to read?
May 22 23:14:03 <kusanagi>        Not really, something I learned about when I was taking a commercial music class in high school
May 22 23:14:11 <kusanagi>        Lot s of friends in bands and whatnot
May 22 23:14:42 <itspara>        I can confirm, but I forget where my knowledge came from.
May 22 23:14:52 <itspara>        Probably the internet.
May 22 23:15:07 <Bluestreak>        If you find something put it on the SAB pls?
May 22 23:15:17 <Bluestreak>        Just curious
May 22 23:15:22 <kusanagi>        Will do
May 22 23:15:24 <Bluestreak>        Like to be informed
May 22 23:15:26 <kusanagi>        I can ask around
May 22 23:17:48 <kusanagi>        anyway
May 22 23:17:51 <kusanagi>        moving on
May 22 23:18:21 <kusanagi>        "We seek to change current copyright law to a drastically reduced term-length
May 22 23:18:22 <kusanagi>        "
May 22 23:19:16 <itspara>        sounds nice
May 22 23:19:16 <narr>        That length shall be determined at the negotiating table.
May 22 23:19:20 <kusanagi>        yeah
May 22 23:19:28 <narr>        Speaking of which, it's important to know your threshold lengths.
May 22 23:19:32 <kusanagi>        I'm not aiming for perfect specifics right now.
May 22 23:19:51 <itspara>        we shouldn't be too specific. States should be able to fill those details in.
May 22 23:20:05 <kusanagi>        exactly
May 22 23:20:33 <itspara>        But what kusanagi suggests is good. ( we should publish a compilation of state level policy along with national when it comes to that.)
May 22 23:20:39 <itspara>        (but that OT)
May 22 23:20:48 <narr>        Problem: States such as California, Illinois, Tennessee, and New York will have higher thresholds than other states.
May 22 23:20:55 <kusanagi>        that's something for your survey, parasect
May 22 23:21:16 <kusanagi>        Copyright is a national law
May 22 23:21:25 <narr>        (11:19:51 PM) itspara: we shouldn't be too specific. States should be able to fill those details in.
May 22 23:21:58 <Bluestreak>        Copyright is a national law
May 22 23:22:09 <itspara>        true, but the people running for office are going to be from states
May 22 23:22:13 <narr>        Should it remain national?
May 22 23:22:20 <kusanagi>        narr: i believe it should
May 22 23:22:25 <Bluestreak>        That's a can of worms!
May 22 23:22:28 <kusanagi>        national would be universal
May 22 23:22:34 <Bluestreak>        State by state!
May 22 23:22:47 <itspara>        and of course, they will have their own platforms... but the states will still encourage them to go for things similar to their platforms
May 22 23:22:56 <Bluestreak>        I am already suffering because of differences between countries
May 22 23:23:06 <Bluestreak>        Well not SUFFERING
May 22 23:24:31 <kusanagi>        yeah
May 22 23:24:40 <kusanagi>        if it's a national law, keep it national
May 22 23:25:02 <kusanagi>        we come together to determine what national's idea would be
May 22 23:26:03 <kusanagi>        yeah
May 22 23:26:49 <kusanagi>        is there any more debate on this?
May 22 23:27:07 <Bluestreak>        I'm good.
May 22 23:27:41 <OyajiVyse>        nope
May 22 23:27:52 <narr>        No qualms.
May 22 23:28:20 <OyajiVyse>        any more platform ideas to discuss tonight?
May 22 23:28:33 <itspara>        ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
May 22 23:28:47 <Bluestreak>        Move to wrap it up?
May 22 23:28:49 <kusanagi>        so, that will be put on the agenda for next meeting (vote is not required)
May 22 23:28:56 <kusanagi>        dmca?
May 22 23:28:56 <Bluestreak>        *yawns*
May 22 23:29:05 <itspara>        DMCA reform?
May 22 23:29:05 <narr>        Yea I'm tired too.
May 22 23:29:16 <Bluestreak>        Support unlocking
May 22 23:30:22 <kusanagi>        yep.
May 22 23:30:30 <kusanagi>        we'll add that to next meeting's agenda
May 22 23:30:36 <kusanagi>        any other points to add?
May 22 23:30:58 <OyajiVyse>        or if not, open floor?
May 22 23:31:12 <kusanagi>        otherwise, open floor
May 22 23:31:15 <itspara>        Civil Rights? including Native Rights?
May 22 23:31:20 <itspara>        though that can be addressed later
May 22 23:31:39 <itspara>        Open currencies
May 22 23:31:46 <narr>        We could just talk it off on open floor, right?
May 22 23:31:51 <narr>        them*
May 22 23:31:56 <itspara>        yep
May 22 23:33:47 <kusanagi>        yeah
May 22 23:36:20 <kusanagi>        if nothing else, someone can motion
May 22 23:36:23 <kusanagi>        to close
May 22 23:36:32 <itspara>        nobody should motion
May 22 23:36:34 <kusanagi>        next meeting will be jun 5th
May 22 23:36:35 <CalebLangeslag>        to adjourn
May 22 23:36:44 <kusanagi>        CalebLangeslag: same thing
May 22 23:36:49 <kusanagi>        kind of
May 22 23:37:04 <itspara>        any thoughts on energy? nat sec?
May 22 23:37:19 <kusanagi>        itspara: we can bring them up next meeting
May 22 23:37:26 <itspara>        ok
May 22 23:37:28 <OyajiVyse>        motion to adjourn
May 22 23:37:34 <kusanagi>        when we're a bit more awake
May 22 23:37:48 <Bluestreak>        2nd
May 22 23:37:54 <kusanagi>        vote pleases
May 22 23:38:10 <itspara>        aye
May 22 23:38:15 <CalebLangeslag>        aye
May 22 23:38:15 <Bluestreak>        aye
May 22 23:38:27 <OyajiVyse>        aye
May 22 23:38:46 <kusanagi>        caleb can't vote..
May 22 23:39:00 <CalebLangeslag>        at-large?
May 22 23:39:05 <kusanagi>        oh yeah...
May 22 23:39:11 <kusanagi>        narr: 
May 22 23:39:19 <narr>        aye
May 22 23:39:27 <kusanagi>        Talada?
May 22 23:39:32 <kusanagi>        Bueller?
May 22 23:40:10 <kusanagi>        Guess he's out. vote closed, tally?
May 22 23:40:32 <OyajiVyse>        3.5 for, 1 abstain
May 22 23:40:43 <kusanagi>        yay!
May 22 23:40:54 <OyajiVyse>        motion passed, meeting adjourned
May 22 23:41:01 <kusanagi>        Next meeting is 6.5.13! 9PM Eastern