PNC 02/26/2023

Meeting Minutes

18:32:35 <Woden> Calling the meeting to order at 9:32 Eastern
<Woden> IDs
<Woden> Anthony Jay Porter, IN, PNC Chair
<pmchi> Mitch Davilo, Chicagoland/ILPP, Swarmcare Manager
<yari> Rose Klein, CA rep, USPP secretary
<Joe> Joseph Onoroski, Treasurer and MA 2nd rep
<yari> Joe for data gathering purposes can I get the reason for your being late? No need to share if personal. I want to improve our process.
<Joe> Adventures in babysitting!
<Woden> Excellent. This will probably be a short meeting focused on reports. I will first as if the IT committee has anything new.
<yari> legit,
<yari> IT delayed meeting. gathering our resources for Wednesday.
<Woden> Understood. Platform?
<Woden> (ALso I will get to the DM I promise)
<yari> np
<pmchi> No platform meeting this week. I did, however, post an editorial to the website to address the “National Divorce” debates. Though I’m happy to post content, I would like to formally apologize to Joe. Some weeks ago, there was an article I promised I’d write up a post to and I never did. That’s not upholding my word and I apologize. The “national divorce” topic was something close to the bone that I was able to talk at length about. I 
<pmchi> feel it only fair to address that
<yari> we do what we can pmchi
<Joe> No need for apologies. I have made my fair share of mistakes. 
<Woden> I would love it if we could keep posting editorials. We still have a writer's room to engage.
<Woden> Outreach: Interviews are still postponed, this week was not a good week to start. Pray for me
<yari> praying
<Woden> Officers - Any Secretary report?
<pmchi> No no, i apologize only for promising you one thing and then failing to deliver. That’s not what an upholding citizen does. I promise to do better
<pmchi> I also promise for more editorials
<yari> Woden - more editorials could happen. I have ideas.
<yari> Secretary: I don't think I have a report?
<yari> I'm gonna go with no
<yari> brain mush
<Woden> All you need is an idea and two other Pirates. I do not think we need to get in the way of anyone on the board any more than that. 
<yari> nice
<Woden> WHhn it comes to editorials
<yari> of course
<Woden> Understood with Sec. Swarmcare?
<pmchi> No reports
<Woden> Understood. Treasury?
<Joe> We have additional items in the merch store. I did not see any additional transactions yet though.
<Joe> I need to get me a new tee
<Joe> That's all I have currently. 
<Woden> Excellent. I want to add that we should start thinking about how to reward big donors. 
<yari> Uh..
<Woden> With praise
<yari> okay
<Woden> Not corruption
<yari> you scared me for a second there
<yari> I'm like "oh no Woden went of the deep end"
<pmchi> The state of Michigan has now contributed 300% more than Illinois
<Woden> If we're going to start getting $100 donations at once, it would probably be nice to put their names somewhere if they want it. For like a month or something. For even bigger amounts I do think it would be nice to have an "Admiral's Table CLub" or something. Maybe they get their name on the website forever if they want it
<Joe> I have to say, usually it is a common premise to reward big donations with time from a rep. That could be done. Maybe a luncheon with Mitch as a fund raising idea.
<pmchi> I’d be happy to have lunch with anyone
<yari> I have to ask: why
<Woden> It encourages people to donate
<pmchi> Why not? I travel anyways
<pmchi> I’ll be in Zanesville again this Saturday
<pmchi> Traveling man
<yari> I think it's cool to have lunch with Mitch
<Woden> Nonprofits tend to do this sort of thing. The LP has the 1776 club or whatever. It's a way to make people feel valued and give them a flex for their money
<Woden> It's common practice
<yari> 'because other ppl do it' is not a good reason
<Woden> Let me put it this way - it works
<yari> it encourages people to donate, yeah i saw
<yari> I understand that
<Woden> People like swag regardless of the amount of money they are able to contribute, you know what I mean?
<Joe> So long as we don't take it too far.
<Woden> Some people can contribute and get back a shirt
<pmchi> What is the 1776 club exactly?
<Woden> Other can contribute more and like something nice in return
<Woden> Let me get a link
<pmchi> How much do we sell shirts for? Maybe a shirt for every $25?
<pmchi> In donations
<Woden> While I know that appeal to popularity isn't great, I have never heard anyone bad mouth the practice in the PR scene. It's accepted as a given
<yari> I don't like this. If we only build connections with those willing to invest in us for the sake of creating more investment, what does that say about our values??
<Woden> It is just another way to provide swag and beloning
<Joe> 1776 club is to libertarians that young pirates are to us.
<Joe> https://yaliberty.org/
<papegaai> Title: Young Americans for Liberty (at yaliberty.org)
<Woden> Wrong thing then
<Woden> One sec
<Joe> That is where google directed me to.
<yari> our goals and values should always be forefront to the conversation. We are a values-driven organization.
<Woden> Maybe it's the lifetime members
<Woden> https://my.lp.org/lifetime-members/
<yari> That means we aren't just in this for the fucking money
<Woden> This is still something, a list of everyone who has made a $1500 donation
<yari> not just for 'line go up'
<yari> I'm not objecting to donations, nor to finding ways to make connections with those willing to invest
<Woden> Well, we can;t do this for the money, We aren't getting paid. But we do still need it. We live in a capitalism
<Joe> 21:52:20 - Woden: This is still something, a list of everyone who has made a $1500 donation
<Joe> We have to report that anyways 
<yari> yes, Woden you're absolutely right
<Woden> Yes, but it's a special page on our website
<yari> we need support
<Woden> Would be
<Woden> Yari, I'm not sure I fully understand the moral hangup. Can you explain to me a bit more?
<yari> Yeah I think I've been trying to articulate it for the last three meetings
<Woden> If you need to roast me to get your point across, I give you permission. We're friends
<yari> No, I don't need to do that
<yari> if anything, I need time to fully investigate my own thoughts on this
<yari> I think, for now, my half-formed idea is this:
<Woden> To me, I don't see this practice as any different than buying a shirt. You're mostly just doing this to support an organization you care about, but you get something back.
<Woden> I don't think it corrupts anything. Any big donor should know that we are actively antagonistic to anyone who uses that power evilly.
<Woden> So long as we hold to those values
<Joe> Hmmm, "I did this for my crew, but this little bit of treasure is for me!" 
<Joe> I want that coffee mug.
<pmchi> Joe I like that, we should
<Joe> A cute way to donate is always clutch.
<Woden> Yes
<Woden> Also we are going to have anti-corruption measures inside our finances at every step of the way, that's who we are
<Woden> I do not want to ever accept money for my job, for example. Being the USPP chair will never become that large of a commitment 
<Woden> ANd I would think everyone would agree
<yari> We need funding to support our goals. That's fine and necessary. Any equating of monetary success with voice in our organization should be thoroughly questioned. If pmchi is just going around and meeting with donors, I hate it. If pmchi is going around and using a meeting with a donor as an excuse to meet with every other pirate in the area, cool. 
<yari> Currently we are raising negative dollars
<yari> I want us to be able to have financial stability
<pmchi> Also gang there’s nothing wrong with a gift in exchange for donating. We could throw together a mystery box of a shirt, a couple buttons and stickers. Maybe a copy of No Safe Habor
<yari> I'm all down for gifts in exchange for donating
<yari> It's the 'having our ear' bit that makes me feel not great
<Joe> I see your point Yari, but usually political parties are fed on donations.
<Woden> Ohhh okay, so primary concern is donors getting an exclusive meeting with someone after they donate
<yari> yeah that feels like a slippery slope
<pmchi> As for the luncheon idea: I could easily travel and call it a Pirate recruitment Q&A, with anyone who donates in the state invited to a personal luncheon. It doesn’t have to be “You get a luncheon because you donated”. It can be “Because you donated, next time Mitch is in your state, we’ll get lunch”
<Woden> Okay, that is way more understandable 
<Woden> That raises another question though
<Joe> We should always have an open ear to the populations we serve. This would be more of an event, usually one off.
<Woden> ...AT some point we will have to meet with potential donors to CONVINCE them to donate
<Woden> That is the name of the game in nonprofits
<yari> I don't think that's the case, though.
<yari> Our donations don't have to come from previous or established donors
<yari> and those previous or established donors are already more likely to just donate
<yari> This is what I'm trying to say:
<Woden> I think you underestimate the amount of money everyone gets from that. Not that there isn't a better way, but it's ubiquitous. Someone would need to present a better system that could bring in the money
<Woden> I don't always like that either, but the assumption is that the good we are selling is productive conversation
<yari> I think we should place our values first, and not give a damn about catering to donors except to say what our needs are
<yari> Woden your assumption here is that the only way we can succeed as an organization is by engaging with the system of donation capitalism
<yari> which is just false
<yari> you clearly don't like it
<yari> so let's stick to donor gifts and make that it
<Woden> I am saying that it is the best method until we do sufficient R&D into otherwise
<Joe> Yari, this is a trick Democrats use to great success. If it works great, if not we can dump it. 
<Woden> And for better or worse (worse) it's how US nonprofits are setup to operate from conception
<yari> because they are part of the capitalistic system, yes
<yari> that doesn't make it good
<Joe> Agreed 
<yari> so are we here to do good or are we here to grow big?
<pmchi> How are you differentiating donation capitalism with donations in general?
<yari> pmchi good point
<yari> I like donations in general
<Joe> Time, in this case Mitch, is valuable. 
<Joe> We trade Mitch, whom donates his time at no cost to get the money to grow.
<Woden> I'm here to do good, so I want to grow big so we can do good
<pmchi> I understand wanting to reward big donations, but maybe he’s the thing: it no longer becomes a donation. It becomes a purchase. If you ask me, I think it should be this:
<yari> prefigurative politics Woden
<yari> what you do today becomes your tomorrow
<Joe> We are what we do. I see what you mean.
<yari> if you seek growing big today, the org will seek growing big tomorrow
<Woden> I do see what you mean
<Joe> However 
<yari> this org will last beyond us
<Joe> ...
<yari> and the structures we create to facilitate our goals now
<yari> will not so easily change
<Joe> We can just do a luncheon with Mitch for the general public. 
<yari> yeah I like that
<yari> if Mitch is all for it
<pmchi> We shouldn’t give more than a personalized thank you note from the USPP Captain, a signed copy of No Safe Harbor, and a shirt. We aren’t selling these things, and should advertise nothing. We should instead throw them these gifts as a sign of gratitude.
<pmchi> I’ll eat with anyone
<Joe> Ask for donations and volunteers 
<yari> gifts for gratitude is great
<pmchi> Tbh I think a Swarmcare tour might be a good thing
<Woden> I do want to say though - Kind of like an animal in the wrong environment, our growth is capped because of the two party system and other systems at our disposal. We can only grow so large. I do want us to be growth minded so we can make sure to take up all of the space we are allowed to take. There's a max on our heads
<pmchi> https://www.cpusa.org/donate/
<papegaai> Title: Donate – Communist Party USA (at www.cpusa.org)
<yari> Woden, I don't think that changes the point.
<pmchi> Hey listen, if the Communist Party USA isn’t above asking for donations, then we shouldn’t hesitate
<yari> I'm not saying we shouldn't ask for donations to be clear
<Woden> There is no way the CPUSA supports LEGACY GIVING. 
<Woden> I don't think we could ever be more antitheitcal to our values than that
<yari> oh yeah that's... ugh
<yari> hahahaa well, glad I'm not in the CPUSA
<pmchi> ^^
<Woden> I promise you that I will never be this bad lol
<yari> not a communist?
<yari> haha
<pmchi> Definitely not my communist party of choice
<yari> no kidding
<Woden> To turn Mitch's point against me, I think the CPUSA is a good example of what you're talking about
<Woden> What a betrayal
<yari> goodness get your praxis right fools
<Woden> I would never go that far
<yari> well, and many of them probably thought the same at the start
<yari> Again, I agree with having a donation button
<yari> we need that
<yari> we need funding
<Woden> Well, many of them were Russian federal agents at the start
<yari> ^
<yari> fair
<Joe> "Pirates for a better future, vote for pirates when you see them"
<Joe> Hmm, I don't like that second part
<Woden> But I do not see anything wrong with the legacy member thing
<Woden> NOT LEGACY
<Woden> Lifetime
<Woden> Jesus
<yari> lol
<pmchi> Jesus was a communist
<pmchi> Speaking of
<yari> recurring payment plans?
<yari> is that what you mean
<pmchi> I like those
<pmchi> I think he means large donation, lifetime memberships like the LP
<Joe> What about a patron account?
<yari> Joe we don't need it
<yari> we have our own stripe processing
<yari> also Patreon takes a huge cut
<Woden> What Mitch said
<pmchi> I don’t think the USPP can have a Patreon, but a USPP podcast officially distinct?
<yari> patreon takes a huge cut
<Woden> I struggle to find my other examples off the top of my head, but this is not weird for political nonprofits
<Joe> No, we are one and the same.
<yari> 10% minimum
<Joe> Yeah, I don't want pirates to put money in other pockets. 
<yari> don't do patreon
<yari> we can just do it through our website, and supporters can tag the funding for specific purposes or whatever
<yari> also we need to make the podcast first
<Joe> 10% is a huge cut.
<pmchi> Might I suggest we post the donation link in the description of every USPP livestream?
<yari> yeah, that's an easy change
<Woden> So, final verdict on what kind of rewards we're thinking about?
<yari> I can start doing that next week pmchi
<yari> thank you
<Joe> Woden, lets do the usual
<Joe> Letter, cup, teeshirt, etc.
<pmchi> Refer back to my earlier suggestion on what the rewards are
<yari> We shouldn’t give more than a personalized thank you note from the USPP Captain, a signed copy of No Safe Harbor, and a shirt. We aren’t selling these things, and should advertise nothing. We should instead throw them these gifts as a sign of gratitude.
<Woden> Also - we really need to fix the copy on the donations page sometime, just give it another pass. The way we formatted the names is a little long and why 12 bucks and not 10?
<Woden> And things like that
<yari> copy pasted what mitch said
<yari> Woden, because the donation system is weird and agreed.
<yari> IT is on it
<Woden> Fair
<Joe> Also, with small anonymous donates, how are we going to send them stuff?
<yari> There's an address box?
<Woden> I understand the verdict a bit better. That being said, I still think that we should give larger donors something special
<pmchi> I suppose we wouldn’t if they’re anonymous. We just graciously accept
<Woden> We cannot afford to to send people things for small donations lol
<Joe> We can give them the best of us.
<yari> I mean Woden a signed thing from the captain is pretty cool
<Woden> We would not see any of that 12 bucks
<Joe> We can give them
<Joe> ....
<Joe> Mitch
<yari> no
<yari> no
<yari> lol
<pmchi> $100 minimum for the shirt, book, note
<yari> signed things from the captain is a lot of work
<pmchi> Signed note however should be all donations
<pmchi> Unless they suddenly become frequent
<Joe> #notall
<pmchi> You know what, even then
<pmchi> Handwritten
<yari> disagree tbh
<Woden> As happy as I would be to do it, I don;t thinky my signature is worth as much as a public thank you on the website
<yari> Woden honestly, I would rather have your signature
<Woden> I still will do it, I want to be accessible to the people
<pmchi> Second
<yari> and I think most others would also
<yari> website is by nature temporary and mutable
<yari> signature on paper feels more tangible
<Joe> I am sorry, I have to go.
<pmchi> A physical thank you note from the democratically elected captain of the USPP for your donation, no matter how small, is a good enough gesture
<Woden> We can hang this up and do informal discussion
<yari> especially in the era of web 2.0, recognition on web is worth little
<yari> motion to adjourn
<pmchi> Second
<Joe> 2nd
<Woden> All in favor?
<yari> aye
<pmchi> Aye
<Joe> Aye
19:25:18 <Woden> Thanks all! Meeting adjourned at 10:25 PM